easy installation autopackage

[funkmuscle]

Hey guys, one of the biggest argument about linux is that we have too many distros and it's a pain to install apps.
I think that keeps some of the Windows and Mac developers from writing apps for Linux...
Check this site out. These people came up aith an autopackager that will install any app on any distro:
http://autopackage.org/

[studio32]

Hey guys, one of the biggest argument about linux is that we have too many distros and it's a pain to install apps.
I think that keeps some of the Windows and Mac developers from writing apps for Linux...

I disagree. They only have to make the source available imo. Package building is the task of the package builders of the distro's.

Check this site out. These people came up aith an autopackager that will install any app on any distro:
http://autopackage.org/

I am a bit skeptical about it... Only if a distro like Ubuntu will use it, it could become a success. I don't see Debian guys use those stuff...

But it is bad in general wanting to be 'like Windows or Mac'... and frustrating too... and not good...

What is the difficulty of

Code: Select all

aptitude install <package>

?

If there is a problem, it is that packages or better, audio packages are not up to date enough or not builded...

So I think if you want to improve the availability of audio packages, you should become a member of a packaging team...

[funkmuscle]

see, I got Ubuntu on my daughter's pc and that compare to Arch is night and day...
Arch uses pacman which is like apt-get but deb based OS are too frustrating. I started of years ago with Red Hat and rpms drove me nuts, then the same with Mandrake/mandriva then flavours of deb but then I tried gentoo and arch and when I found out how customizable Arch is, I can't use any other.
Like deb package need a -dev package and if you can't find it, stuff don't work... Arch has a PKGBUILD script that you customize for your personal setup. For instance, as soon as Ardour has a new release, I change the version in the PKGBUILD and then download it..
I would check other distros and no one has it yet then the ardour forum is loaded with ubuntu users not being able to build it and I've experienced that on my kids pc.

But not to be like Windows or Mac but sometime, it's frustrating finding an app that was built for deb and then you need to edit the makefile to build it on your distro. With autopackage, that frustration is gone. In my case where I'm only a musician who hacks around with the pc, that becomes annoying.

I don't know, I guess it's just imo..... Don't get me wrong, Ubuntu is the best out there and great for newbies and being deb based, it's stable that's why my kid is using it.

[Claudio]

Autopackage has been around for years and it's still never caught on. I believe part of the problem is that there's no way for maintaining the application after you've installed it. It's up to you to see if there's a new version out there. It's not handled at all by the operating system. I kind of like the "set it and forget it" philosophy of the package manager, especially for new users. The App Store for the iPhone basically uses the same concept, and it's proven to be successful for them as it has been for GNU/Linux users. It's when you step outside of a particular distribution's application delivery method that you come across this issue, but the only ones that really care about stuff like that are the more advanced GNU/Linux users anyway.

View this line on their page and see why I find this to be one of the reasons Autopackage hasn't taken off.
http://autopackage.org/faq.html#4_1

You're still required to install the libraries through your package manager anyway from what I gathered there, so why bother with it then? Still, to each their own.....choice still reigns supreme.

[funkmuscle]

yeah, if that's the case then forget it... I like what my package manager does for me and they way I can customize it.
the only drag is that many developers make the apps for their distro and the other distros have to do some editing... if only we had a way of centralizing or a rule that all distros would follow JUST FOR THE USE OF APP INSTALLATIONS would be great. A one app build fits all kinda thing...

[thorgal]

the only drag is that many developers make the apps for their distro

I find this statement a bit too strong. If this is true, they aren't good devs. A programmer only has to care about code (software API, h/w architecture, etc) and this is in principle distro independent. Where the distro flavor kicks in is the fact that some external dependencies are required. A software lib version may be outdated in this or that distro for code X to be compiled and run properly. Unfortunately, you will never be able to solve this issue 100% as a developer has to start his code from somewhere. If your development platform is Ubuntu 8.10 and need bleeding edge lib versions, you will not avoid a problematic backport if you want to use the developed software in say Gutsy 7.10. That's just how it is. The root-cause of the issue is not the distro but the dependencies (external libs, compiler version, kernel version, etc).

[funkmuscle]

thorgal, this is the first time anyone has explain this so clearly. Now I understand and thank you.

My quote was taken from other forums where users use distros that are on the bleeding edge and are updated everyday, sometimes more than once a day.
The other argument I read a few years ago was that linux would not see mainstream due to the fact that too many flavours and too many dependencies and no consistency ie:/usr/bin or /usr/local/bin..

I remember that headache when an app wouldn't install. I had to edit the makefile and configure file to suit my distro...

All I'm saying is do we have a way of simplifying this but from your answer, it doesn't look that way.
All I want to see is that linux gets the respect out there..

[thorgal]

I understand your concern. Unfortunately, that's the "fabric" of the open-source space. I think Redhat and to some extent Ubuntu have understood how fluid this space is and are trying to find a middle way, not far from MS Windows when you think of it, namely : one "stable" OS release that will only be patched for security and minor updates. That's how WinXP can be so popular. It's an already outdated OS in many ways but is "stable" in the eyes of many because core and critical components do not fundamentally change, especially the exposed API for software developers on this platform. This is different with linux. Just the discussion about merging the kernel RT tree into the main kernel tree creates headaches. This is quite a drastic change for such a critical component of linux. But linux does not have the same release model as windows. Therefore, things can get much more changing in shorter times. On the user app level, take ardour. Same thing here: their roadmap is definitely not based on more commercial software development. It's another software culture, one has to either adapt to or simply refuse. Unless open-source developers of a given app provide backports, and I think something like jackd does not do bad in that respect, they do care about backward compatibility, the issue you bring up is the _essence_ of GNU/Linux and the open-source model, i.e. an ever-changing environment that tend to be a little chaotic.

Yes, it forces you to cope with the dependency issue, download source code, compile, etc. But this has definitely improved, first with the prehistorical Imake system, then the autotool stuff, now scons, waf and what-not. We should on the contrary be thankful that so many tools were provided from anonymous ppl to have more control over that kind of stuff. In the very old days, yeah, you had to hack Makefiles, etc. That was lame, but personally, I started computing like that so for me, linux has been a constant evolution toward the better and easier. I sometimes find the latest distros a bit too much windows or mac like but sticking to debian reassures me: I am not dealing with another OS's clone

You know, some ppl like to fix things themselves rather than call customer support, repair service, etc. I am definitely in that category. Why ? I don't know. That's probably why I am so uncomfortable with windows: I have no clue what it does and how ...

[funkmuscle]

well written thorgal and makes a lot of sense... Thanx.. I'm one of those who like to fix it myself since I found out how to. .

[thorgal]

you know, I kind of like this environment. Sure it creates a few headaches sometimes, but in the end, I am ALWAYS able to fix an issue, one way or another. Because the benefit of this ever changing environment is a deeper understanding of your tool from hands on experience. I don't believe in many things but direct experience with problems and solving them is one of the few things from which you truly learn, I firmly believe that. When things are too smooth, when the way has been paved too neatly, when there's no friction, what chance do you have to evolve ? About none

The demand from users that grew up with no understanding of the tool they have in hand is simply chocking to me, especially when the tools are developed from ppl who are not necessarily paid for their work! We have to acknowledge that the state of linux distros nowadays is really amazing.

Sure there are a lot of distros out there, many different packaging systems, etc. They do not solve more fundamental issues inherent to the open-source-community based model. But the wealth of creativity, anonymous talents, versatility of free tools, etc, is an emulation of how nature works : diversity. All these distros are in definitive neat packaging to appeal to a more vast user base. That's fine. Eventually, some will settle down, maybe some will disappear, that's how nature works again. But the whole linux thing has been in a constant transformation. Look at the kernel development! It's still in its infancy though. Let nature do its work and some of these issues that irritate you today will seem unimportant later on, because your problem solving will become a second nature.

As a final remark, if I had paid through the nostrils for my OS and user apps that I use everyday, I would surely expect no less than perfection. Having downloaded debian and open-source apps for free, made by ppl who could do something else of their spare time, I have no big expectation ... and that's why I am so amazed by what I can derive from their work.

By the way, how is your music doing ? aren't we also musicians, not only linuxians ?

[funkmuscle]

yep, all we have to do is look at Ardour, Hydrogen, Rosegarden, guitarix, etc.....
I too like the fact of fixing without having to reinstall.
My wife still uses XP for work reasons and an app died and it took down the entire pc. I had to reinstall for her. Then the headache of finding drivers began.

[schivmeister]

I vote gzipped tar archives!