Too many distros

[supercoco74]

Nowadays there are a lot of different linux-audio distributions, wich are not so different from each other, the goal being allways to turn the computer into a fully operational machine for audio production: UbuntuStudio, AVStudio, TangoStudio, KXStudio, Dream Studio, Musix, 64 Studio, and some others. It is my personal opinion that this is no good any more, because it means that the knowledge is split in several independent forums and databases: UbuntuStudio users go to UbuntuStudio forums, AVStudio users go to AVStudio forums, and so on. And I strongly believe that, being a minority in the "real" world (linux has 5% of market, more or less), we (the users) would all benefit from one large database and forum for the easy exchange of information and knowledge (wich is the spirit of linux, is not?)

I understand that it must be very rewarding for a single person or small team to say: "I made my own linux-audio distro" (I certainly would feel proud if I could do that). And I imagine this person would feel "anonimous" being involved in a larger team, just contributing and helping to make others previous work even better. Personally not so rewarding, ok. But it is (always my personal opinion) going to benefit the community more this way, making the already existing tools far more stable, reliable, and advanced.

Because creators of audio-distros have put so many hours, illusion and effort into their projects (eternal gratitude here), I'm not so fool to think they will happily abandon them to anonimously join one huge community to take one existing distro into perfection, even if they think I 'm right in what I said here (I might be wrong, too! hehe). But all this seems so obvious to me that I just had to say it.

Peace,

[alex stone]

I disagree with your idea of a united base. In the last 5 years in Linux i've discovered that any composite project tends to towards generic music styles when apps are designed, and anything outside of Rock, Synthetic of some sort, small ensemble, is perceived as outside of many devs perception of viable user base. Same goes for workflow.

I ended up with likeminded people who were interested in developing the same use case as I was, and we've ended up with an app, and OS framework that is far closer to satisfying our use case than any of the current crop of Audio distros.

In any composite project, it's inevitable that the focus tends towards the "fashion of the day", or developer's design preferences. That usually excludes those who write or create outside of the mainstream, or for example, want a stripped down working environment, minus massive resource chewing GUI desktop, which they won't get, because the majority of users use their computer for other tasks as well, like skyping, gaming, writing thesis, and so on, and those users will agitate to keep the eye candy.

AVlinux, KXstudio, etc, all deserve their individual places in the sun, for their user bases, and design intent. I think we're extremely lucky to have a choice if we wish. They're well designed, passionately maintained, and plug into the strength of Linux, which is user choice. Those devs, like Gmaq, and FalkTX, have their own preferences, for example GTK V KDE, and users get to choose which one they'd prefer to satisfy them the most.

So no, i don't agree that "one distro to rule them all with music, noise of some sort, and pictures" is a path forward. Imho, it would be a step backwards, and a path to a bland generic "winlike" structure that would introduce limitations for those outside the genre of "normal users".

Been there, done that, with both Win and Mac for a living, and it sucks.

I write this from a stripped down box that runs 64bit Gentoo, with a barebones Fluxbox WM, and just about all of my computer resource devoted to audio and midi. No hungry GUI. and no problems with pulseaudio, gstreaming, and all that other stuff i'll never use, and won't install. Just the apps i want, in the environment i want.

Alex.

[GMaq]

@supercoco74

I think you are touching on a topic that has some relevance currently and there is already movement in that direction especially in the Ubuntu world. falkTX the developer of KXStudio has already indicated that his development focus is shifting from KXStudio being a separate entity to a set of phenomenal repositories supporting not only one but 2 very different large distros (Ubuntu and Archlinux). He is also making efforts to enhance compatibility with pure Debian and make his sources available to other Distros as well. I think this is a gesture of both great humility and foresight on his part. It would appear that Dream Studio is also utilizing the KXStudio repos so that is another smart alliance that cuts down on duplication.

On the other hand something like AV Linux (not AV 'Studio') which I develop is somewhat different and whether it has a future in the current climate will remain to be seen. AV Linux began life in 2007 as 2 of the major Studio distros were fading away (JackLab, 64Studio) and simply began as a shared Desktop of a working Linux Audio system since at the time Ubuntu Studio was also in great difficulty with a prolonged period of broken -RT Kernels which thankfully for all Linux users is ancient history. The point is that throughout that time AV Linux continued to grow and found an audience that seemed to respond to it's Image Based ideology.

People have a short memory that until after Debian Lenny was released the in-house multimedia packaging in Debian was very outdated and limited which was also a temporary void being filled by AV Linux. Thankfully during the course of Squeeze as testing Debian managed to accrue an amazingly revitalized pkg-multimedia team which now serves Wheezy and Sid users very well.

The point is I'm a musician who shared my setup, I have no computer training or pedigree and certainly the last thing on my mind is/was becoming some sort of 'Distro god'. So your assertion that we have separate distros because they serve as an ego trip for their developers is a shoe that doesn't fit in this case. Some projects are simply born to serve a need at a given time. The world of Linux changes and evolves SO rapidly these days that I for one will have no difficulty stepping down when the time seems right and the need for my small contribution is at an end.

[paldepind]

There has always been duplication of efforts. Open source only minimizes the duplication. It does however also make the duplication more obvious. I don't think the Linux community is too divided. Competition is most of the time good (even thought I don't think it matters much in open source).

I however do not understand the point of a KXStudio for Arch. Why not develop great multimedia inside the Arch community instead of making an extern repo?

[supercoco74]

Must say I totally agree with falkTX, the community lacks nice tutorials about the great audio software linux has nowadays. This is especially important in opensource, since feedback from users is essential for the direction of the software development (also more users means more donations for developers, take Ardour case, for instance). I think we (those who know how to use linux audio software) should "sacrifice" a bit of our time to produce this material. I started my little personal contribution translating into spanish Katie Wardrobe's tutorials for Musescore with authorisation, of course (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJvWpKobEsc#). Have you done your "tutorials" homework?

[StudioDave]

... Have you done your "tutorials" homework?

A little. Latest SuperCollider-related efforts here:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/sup ... er3-part-1

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/sup ... er3-part-2

Part 3 is already uploaded, should be on-line next week.

Best,

dp

[i2productions]

Must say I totally agree with falkTX, the community lacks nice tutorials about the great audio software linux has nowadays.

I've been slowly working on a comprehensive guide to audio work in Linux on my Linux in Review site. I've taken a couple of weeks off from actually posting anything, spending time with my family, but I have been plugging away little by little at a comprehensive guide.

I do think distros need to start merging. falkTX is definitely at the forefront of this. Personally I'd like to see the Ubuntu Studio project just become the distro side of KXStudio. I mean, IMHO, it doesn't seem to be filling a niche anymore, other than it may be one of the first studio distros linux newbies find, but it only contains the most basic of applications these day. Though they do have a great team that really helps the overall community out.

My distro testing has led me to believe that KXStudio, AV Linux, and to a smaller degree Artist X are really the 3 distros that should be merged down to, as they really seem to fill different needs in the linux/open source music ecosystem. KXStudio is great as a solid platform for everyday use. AV Linux is absolutely, hands down the best portable studio ever devised. Artist X is definitely the most complete set of Audio/Video apps out there, but buggy and more bloated than probably needed for everyday and everyones use.

Just my two cents.

[paldepind]

The external repo only helps the installation of new packages.
Besides the repositories for Arch and Ubuntu, KXStudio is pretty much the same for all distros.

Having an Arch repo means I can push my own stuff there, and also patch any application that needs it. From the top of my head this would be:
- Custom JACK2 build (use dbus settings by default, max clients = 256, ladi no-sef-connect mode)
- Remove pulseaudio support from Phonon and KDE (so it works better for raw ALSA mixing, pulseaudio mixers are useless in JACK mode)
- Any other app build with ladi lv1 support that doesn't have it by default (like Ardour)
EDIT: Forgot about wine-rt
Oh, one more - custom, non-official, DSSI with chunk support for dssi-vst (will be very useful for Carla)

Thanks for the explanation. It's good to see that you're not just duplicating work already done inside Arch.

[Capoeira]

falk, whats the adress of your Arch repro again?
add it to this list, too:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Un ... positories

[Capoeira]

falk, whats the adress of your Arch repro again?
add it to this list, too:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Un ... positories

The repos information is available in the site:
http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/KXStudi ... #ArchLinux

I've added them to the wiki.

thanks

[Scary Hallo]

ArchLinux it's very cool, and feels a bit more 'Pro' than Ubuntu. Once you figure it out, you can do anything with it...

Does that mean your're main efforts will be for Arch then? Or will you supply both (Arch and Ubuntu) in the future?
I'm planning to set up a Mint (maybe LXDE) with kxstudio.

[GMaq]

Hi,

Are you sure you want metacity for LXDE? It (metacity) works but it's kind of kludgy and eats up a lot of the gains in performance that Openbox gives. It took me a long time to appreciate Openbox and it is not an easy WM to customize since it doesn't use pixmaps however it does work very well and is full-featured and light. I have managed a few custom themes with it but it is limited in appearance.

OTOH Compiz works fairly well with LXDE with the basic plugins, In AV Linux I supply Openbox and Compiz I'm not sure what Lubuntu/Mint etc are doing though but I wasn't really very happy with metacity. Just a suggestion...

[Scary Hallo]

This means I'll be supporting both Arch and Ubuntu (I'm dual booting them now).

That good to hear.