I had an epiphany!

[Audiojunkie]

I had an epiphany. I'm sure you guys have already thought all about all of this, but it was a new thought to me!

It occurred to me today that it is not only possible, but very probable that a Linux user can access every plug-in available for Linux and Windows through using the following three cascading processes:

1. Use native plug-ins first for as much as you can.

2. Once you've used all of the native plug-ins you can for your particular needs, try WINE plus yabridge next for getting Windows plugins to work with your native host. Not all will work, but a lot will. WINE + yabridge is the second best option after native plugins, because they will have the best CPU performance, after native apps.

3. For any other Windows plug-ins that don't perform sufficiently (or at all) with Wine + yabridge, configure your BIOS to use your systems virtualization extensions (Intel VT-x or AMD-V) and turn on Hyperthreading. Then Create a KVM/QEMU (type 1) virtual machine (type 1 is faster than type 2--such as Virtualbox) with Windows 11, using one of the debloated customizations such as: Ghost Spectre Windows 11 Superlite,
   Tiny11 (and Tiny11Builder) -- archive.org/details/tiny-11-NTDEV , ReviOS11, Phoenix Lite OS 11, Windows 11 X-Lite, AtlasOS, or so on. These debloated customizations are known to use only 2GB of RAM and as low as 8GB of space. You will still require a license to use Windows 11. Normally virtual machines are not very performant, so there are some specific customizations that need to be done. At the very least, get all of the virtio drivers installed. These are much faster with communicating between the host and the guest than with one of the emulated hardware options in QEMU. Pin and isoloate your CPUs that you are dedicating to your virtual machine. There is a list of instructions that are much more detailed than my simple comments here. The point is, it has been proven successful. https://gist.github.com/thiagokokada/ce ... beae646e9e

Then, once your Windows is configured, install and configure Audio Gridder. Once all of this is done, you should be able to run any windows or Linux plug-in you want. Your performance,of course, will depend on how powerful your system is, and how deeply you configure your system.

When using your native Linux DAW, use your native linux and Windows WINE+yabridge plug-ins like normal. If you need to use any Windows plugins that run off of the actual Windows virtual machine, make sure you start the virtual machine and audiogridder first, and then simply use the audiogridder plugin to access the windows native plugins from the virtual machine. Everything will be a plug-in.

Now, I want to be clear: I have not tried this yet, but I have now read of several people who are successfully doing this! I plan to try it when I get some time. But it seems clear to me that this is entirely possible, and with enough testing and documentation, it can be a straight forward setup process. This is what we Linux users have available to us these days! It's a great time to be using Linux, and it just keeps getting better!!

[asbak]

The entire point of switching to Linux is to not have to live in a Windows 11 and Windows 11 licence world

Coming up next:

The AI composition thread where somebody will tell us that instead of wasting our time trying to make and play music that it would be so much better if ChatGPT took over these duties, what a marvellous and glorious time to be alive yada yada

[Audiojunkie]

Hehe!! But I’ve seen many users that would say, “I’d prefer to use Linux, except I need this one particular plugin…”. I’m finding that needing this “one particular plugin” is no longer an obstacle. I think knowing what Linux is capable of (running any Linux or Windows plugin) offers a user a CHOICE. We would all love to be using purely native plugins, but until more users use linux, developers won’t want to develop for linux. And, until more developers develop for linux, we won’t have more plugins. It’s a catch-22. I’m sure there are other ways to do things as well. This is now an option. Users have the freedom to do what they want, and more the more options and choices the better.

[GuntherT]

I am sincerely interested in hearing about your experience configuring this setup and its resulting performance after you have it up and running.

[tavasti]

It occurred to me today that it is not only possible, but very probable that a Linux user can access every plug-in available for Linux and Windows through using the following three cascading processes:

There might be still some very minimal amount of plugins that aren't usable even with that setup usable. Drag'n'drop is not working in Audiogridder, so if you have plugin where DnD is crucial part of usage, you may fall short.

Another similar thing might be some other plugins where you need much plugin UI. For example Melodyne might be such thing, but I think I will try it near future (read: within 6 months).

[stanlea]

It is my current way-to-go, but alas I cannot be sure that the wine stuff will be working - for instance, yesterday, after a BIOS update on my Dell Laptop, for a strange reason that I can't understand, wine is broken on my setup. Gui issues mainly, but unable to load any windows plugin, nor standalones.

[Baggypants]

I've run Windows vm's in Linux on and off, and it does work well, although I don't think I'd do it for this as it's not a way I'd want to work. It is a great time to be using Linux though!

[Largos]

Hehe!! But I’ve seen many users that would say, “I’d prefer to use Linux, except I need this one particular plugin…”. I’m finding that needing this “one particular plugin” is no longer an obstacle. I think knowing what Linux is capable of (running any Linux or Windows plugin) offers a user a CHOICE. We would all love to be using purely native plugins, but until more users use linux, developers won’t want to develop for linux. And, until more developers develop for linux, we won’t have more plugins. It’s a catch-22. I’m sure there are other ways to do things as well. This is now an option. Users have the freedom to do what they want, and more the more options and choices the better.

Screenshot_20240614_120232.png (10.15 KiB) Viewed 1932 times

I'm really worried about that shortage of plugins.

[sunrat]

Hehe!! But I’ve seen many users that would say, “I’d prefer to use Linux, except I need this one particular plugin…”. I’m finding that needing this “one particular plugin” is no longer an obstacle...

Screenshot_20240614_120232.png

I'm really worried about that shortage of plugins.

+1. For me that "one particular plugin" was 2, TDR Nova and Valhalla Supermassive. Found several good native Linux plugins to replace them so not going to try to make Win plugins work next time I decide to make a new system. Got all the Harrison XT plugins included with Mixbus 32C Pro now as well.

[Audiojunkie]

It occurred to me today that it is not only possible, but very probable that a Linux user can access every plug-in available for Linux and Windows through using the following three cascading processes:

There might be still some very minimal amount of plugins that aren't usable even with that setup usable. Drag'n'drop is not working in Audiogridder, so if you have plugin where DnD is crucial part of usage, you may fall short.

Another similar thing might be some other plugins where you need much plugin UI. For example Melodyne might be such thing, but I think I will try it near future (read: within 6 months).

You are correct. There might be a few outliers that may still not work, I agree. But "in general", with only a few exceptions, Linux users can access and use all of the plugins from Linux and Windows these days.

[Audiojunkie]

It is my current way-to-go, but alas I cannot be sure that the wine stuff will be working - for instance, yesterday, after a BIOS update on my Dell Laptop, for a strange reason that I can't understand, wine is broken on my setup. Gui issues mainly, but unable to load any windows plugin, nor standalones.

I've been thinking about this a lot.... The most common recommendation that we see, is people suggesting the use of WINE-Staging. I'm not convinced that this is the best idea anymore for those who want stability. The majority of the plugins that work with WINE will nowadays work with WINE-stable. I'm starting to think that WINE-stable would be a better way to go. Then, everything is more likely to work reliably all of the time. If there is ever a time when WINE-stable doesn't work, one can then move to WINE-staging until the next WINE-stable and assess again. I'm thinking using WINE-stable may be the way I go moving forward.

[Audiojunkie]

Hehe!! But I’ve seen many users that would say, “I’d prefer to use Linux, except I need this one particular plugin…”. I’m finding that needing this “one particular plugin” is no longer an obstacle. I think knowing what Linux is capable of (running any Linux or Windows plugin) offers a user a CHOICE. We would all love to be using purely native plugins, but until more users use linux, developers won’t want to develop for linux. And, until more developers develop for linux, we won’t have more plugins. It’s a catch-22. I’m sure there are other ways to do things as well. This is now an option. Users have the freedom to do what they want, and more the more options and choices the better.

Screenshot_20240614_120232.png

I'm really worried about that shortage of plugins.

LOL! I agree! Linux has most everything one could need. In my case, the rare outlier would be a deeply sampled instrument such as a Guitar. At the moment, for me, there are only a few Windows apps that I'd really like to have, and I believe all of them but one will work on WINE: Sforzando, VSTSynthFont64, TX16Wx, and Kontakt Player. I also have twenty+ years of Windows plugins that might possibly be interesting to add to my current setup--although I admit that most of what I have on Linux may indeed surpass what I used in the past. My main purpose in researching all of this is to find a solution for those who really, really want to use Linux, but just can't bring themselves to part with a particular plugin or two. Again, most of what I'm referring to is the lack of deeply sampled instruments for native Linux.

[stanlea]

It is my current way-to-go, but alas I cannot be sure that the wine stuff will be working - for instance, yesterday, after a BIOS update on my Dell Laptop, for a strange reason that I can't understand, wine is broken on my setup. Gui issues mainly, but unable to load any windows plugin, nor standalones.

I've been thinking about this a lot.... The most common recommendation that we see, is people suggesting the use of WINE-Staging. I'm not convinced that this is the best idea anymore for those who want stability. The majority of the plugins that work with WINE will nowadays work with WINE-stable. I'm starting to think that WINE-stable would be a better way to go. Then, everything is more likely to work reliably all of the time. If there is ever a time when WINE-stable doesn't work, one can then move to WINE-staging until the next WINE-stable and assess again. I'm thinking using WINE-stable may be the way I go moving forward.

Some gui's are back this morning. I had to mess with the Xorg/Wayland session choice, but not only. Some standalones previously working flawlessly are crashing. NI stuff is working fine , Zplane Decoda gui freezes, Spear launches but very slowly, Tonica crashes. Wine stable or staging, results are the same.

[glowrak guy]

@stanlea: Might be of interest:

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-u ... -or-tablet

Also, some computers have a 'default bios' as a fallback, but you should verify with Dell support if the default is drastically different from the version that shipped with the laptop, in case the chipmaker and Dell had differences.

I have a baseline of apps I rely on, and when those are working, no more updates. I then always use a separate linux or two for further testing,
and re-use the .wine folder in new setups. Has worked well for years, except for a few clumsy user-generated disasters
Cheers

[folderol]

This all goes right over my head.
I'm of the view that if you can't get what you want without one specific plugin, you're doing it wrong.