Roland Space Echo

[onefang]

I'm putting this here coz MusE is what I use, and I want to do this with MusE.

For the music I'm working on I want to add the sort of echo that the Roland Space Echo is famous for. It's very popular, so I'm surprised I haven't found a straight port of it to an open source plugin that I can find on Debian / Devuan or KXStudio. I'm also surprised that the only search hits I can find here are for people using the actual device, not people trying to replicate the device.

I've watched a bunch of tutorial videos, and I have figured out how it is supposed to work. So I might be able to put something together using a bunch of plugins. One problem is that most of them are not documented, or not documented well, and some are very complex.

GxEchoCat or Regrader might do some of it.

LSP Artistic Delay Stereo looks promising, but it can't do basic math. I supply the various numbers for the timing equation, but sometimes different channels end up with different results, using the exact same numbers. I'm not confident it can handle the more complex math involved in doing it's actual job. lol

Another potential problem is I think MusE can only handle up to two ins and outs for plugins, but if I'm doing this with a bunch of plugins, then there will be multiple channels in the middle. Carla rack might help there, haven't tried it.

So maybe someone has done this before, and can tell us how?

Should I cross post this to the plugins forum?

[Impostor]

Another potential problem is I think MusE can only handle up to two ins and outs for plugins,

You can create synth tracks for effects plugins too; then you can use all audio and midi channels the plugin provides.

[Impostor]

Not Fozz, but
https://u-he.com/products/satin/
has a Roland space echo preset:
https://u-he.com/PatchLib/presets/satin ... resets.zip

[barbouze]

Hi!

For the music I'm working on I want to add the sort of echo that the Roland Space Echo is famous for.

Are you after an exact model of the RE-201 behavior or are you after an echo plugin that degrades the sound at each repeat? If it is the later, you could try:

• CHOW Matrix (https://chowdsp.com/products.html)
• The iron oxide series (https://www.airwindows.com/?s=iron+oxide)
• TAL Dub series (https://tal-software.com/products/tal-dub)

It's very popular, so I'm surprised I haven't found a straight port of it to an open source plugin

This is quite complex because to have something convincing, you have to simulate:

• a multi stage analog amplification circuit (see https://manuals.fdiskc.com/flat/Roland% ... Manual.pdf), not that simple but doable with some serious coding skills
• that goes into a tape medium (see https://github.com/jatinchowdhury18/AnalogTapeModel), that part in itself is quite cpu intensive
• and has a spring reverb, which is quite notoriously hard to model

To release such a plugin requires a lot of dedication, skills and time and explains why most if not all of the RE-201 plugins are paid ones done by teams of engineers.
This is also a mythic piece a gear that has "that sound" everyone wants so there is a lot of demand/some money to be made

I've watched a bunch of tutorial videos, and I have figured out how it is supposed to work. So I might be able to put something together using a bunch of plugins. One problem is that most of them are not documented, or not documented well, and some are very complex.

You can surely get something done quickly in VCV Rack or its floss counterpart, Cardinal, by combining a few modules and get a good enough degrading echo effect

[spamatica]

I don't know much about the subtleties of the Roland Space Echo, just wanted to add that airwindows has tape delays too.
https://www.airwindows.com/?s=tapedelay

Also there is this proprietary delay that apparently aspires to simulate the Roland Space Echo. No idea if it works with MusE.
https://www.audiothing.net/effects/springs/

[sunrat]

I owned a Space Echo years ago. Nice unit.

There is this one - available for Linux if you have $69 - https://www.audiothing.net/effects/outer-space/ . A demo version is available.

It's always worth checking the database at http://linuxmusic.rocks/ for plugins.

[novalix]

No emulation comes near to what the hardware does.

So, be ready to sell one of your children and dig in.

[onefang]

I don't know much about the subtleties of the Roland Space Echo, just wanted to add that airwindows has tape delays too.
https://www.airwindows.com/?s=tapedelay

I had Airwindows LV2 installed, though the VST version is also in the repos. Usually I'll install the LV2 version if there's choice. What I didn't know is the VST version has lots more plugins, including the ones you found in your search. So I had missed them the first time around.

So now I have more to play with. Alas they didn't include the later ones like TapeDelay2, but I'm in the middle of upgrading my operating system, maybe they'll get added when I'm done doing that.

[onefang]

I owned a Space Echo years ago. Nice unit.

There is this one - available for Linux if you have $69 - https://www.audiothing.net/effects/outer-space/ . A demo version is available.

It's always worth checking the database at http://linuxmusic.rocks/ for plugins.

Alas there's a lack of actual descriptions on linuxmusic.rocks. Plenty of interesting names and screenshots though.

As for paying for stuff, did I mention I'm a pensioner that has had to move twice this year, and will have to move again next year? My savings are still recovering.

[onefang]

Lots of interesting plugins in that Airwindows set, I should get what I want from it.

Hours of playing with them.

Hopefully I'll manage to get my song back from the crashies by the time I'm happy with Airwindows, so I can actually get it sounding great before the festival next weekend.

[onefang]

Damn, KXStudio doesn't have a later version of Airwindows.

[LAM]

Damn, KXStudio doesn't have a later version of Airwindows.

Unless you want to build every plugin manually, to have an happier life, you can download the zip from airwindows.com and extract it in ~/.vst.

I do it like this:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash

temp_dir="/tmp/Plugin_Updater"
plugin_file_url="https://www.airwindows.com/wp-content/uploads/LinuxVSTs.zip"
plugin_file="Airwindows.zip"
plugin_dest_dir="$HOME/.vst/Airwindows"
junk_files=( '.DS_Store' '.gitkeep' )

# Create a temp dir
echo "Create a temp dir"
mkdir -p "$temp_dir"

# Download the plugins
echo "Download the plugins"
wget -P "${temp_dir}" -O "${temp_dir}/${plugin_file}" "${plugin_file_url}"

# Extract in the right folder
echo "Extract in the right folder"
unzip -j "${temp_dir}/${plugin_file}" "LinuxVSTs/*" -d "$plugin_dest_dir"

# Delete junk files
echo "Delete junk files"
i=0
for junk_file in "${junk_files[@]}"; do 
	rm "$plugin_dest_dir/${junk_file}"
	((i++))
done

# Delete temp dir
echo "Delete temp dir"
rm -rf "${temp_dir}"

Not the best script in the world but it does its job.

[onefang]

Damn, KXStudio doesn't have a later version of Airwindows.

Unless you want to build every plugin manually, to have an happier life, you can download the zip from airwindows.com and extract it in

While I am a very experienced professional programmer, I did just look at compiling them myself, after all I compile my own MusE.

The VST SDK needed looks like too many hops to jump through, and the docs for how to compile Airwindows on Linux left out too many steps.

So yeah I might just download the binaries, no need for a script.

[onefang]

Downloaded, now I got the lot.

TapeDelay2 seems to do most of what I want.

Thanks everyone.

[onefang]

While figuring out how to setup MusE for AbusinG this new TapeDelay2 toy, I stumbled across a fun thing.

I've setup a MIDI track to record my fiddling with the controllers on my MIDI keyboard, and feed those control messages to TapeDelay2's various controls. So I can mess with it in real time to get a feel for it, then perform with it while recording it. Plus I can fiddle more than one control at time. Or fiddle some, then fiddle others next time through.

If I play it back while also fiddling with the controls, while the track is in monitor mode, then they fight each other, my twiddles get to go first, but then the MIDI track tries to bring it back to what was recorded before. It all happens so quickly that it basically vibrates slowly between the settings. Sounded wild the first time I stumbled across that.

This will be a very fun night. B-)