LinuxMusicians

It's been a year, or something. And apparently it's time for a song!

Metal this time around. I'm not really sure how or why I end up with a certain style as I tend to be all over the place. Maybe it's as simple as I happened to have a downtuned electric guitar nearby?!
Checking, I see my first snippet was recorded about three weeks ago, so from there, going through a bunch of revisions, it was actually a quite fast recording process for me.
Mixed quite hot, I'm sure I overdid it here and there but I think it is done. At least until someone points out some glaring issue
Created completely with MusE, a lot of Calf plugins, some LSP plugins and Addictive Drums.

Do let me know what you think!
https://soundcloud.com/cdee/jarnjazz-same-lame-game

spamatica wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:10 pm

It's been a year, or something. And apparently it's time for a song!

Metal this time around. I'm not really sure how or why I end up with a certain style as I tend to be all over the place. Maybe it's as simple as I happened to have a downtuned electric guitar nearby?!
Checking, I see my first snippet was recorded about three weeks ago, so from there, going through a bunch of revisions, it was actually a quite fast recording process for me.
Mixed quite hot, I'm sure I overdid it here and there but I think it is done. At least until someone points out some glaring issue ;)
Created completely with MusE, a lot of Calf plugins, some LSP plugins and Addictive Drums.

Do let me know what you think!
https://soundcloud.com/cdee/jarnjazz-same-lame-game

Maybe it's intentional, but I find the riffing guitar overly distorted, sounding a bit too gritty. And (maybe related) the drums are a bit too much in the background. Otherwise, nice track, especially the what-do-you call-it, instrumental refrain? That repeating part with which you also begin and end the track.

While I'm not a 'metal fan', I do enjoy distortion and saturation, and I reduced the amplitude of your song using Audacity, by 2.0, being advised by Imposter

I then enjoyed the distortion, as it was unique within my limited frame of reference, and not thrashing to my ears. I also liked the song structure, chords, patterns etc an easy ride for playing along, I was using some semi-less-than-metal tones using a chain of Camel Crusher, Z3ta+ Efffects version, and NI's Replika diffusion delay.

I think the first half of the song could use some jaunty shredding over the cool foundation
Cheers

Impostor wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:54 pm

Maybe it's intentional, but I find the riffing guitar overly distorted, sounding a bit too gritty. And (maybe related) the drums are a bit too much in the background. Otherwise, nice track, especially the what-do-you call-it, instrumental refrain? That repeating part with which you also begin and end the track.

Yeah, the main guitar ended up VERY distorted, partly intentional (I think I used some kind of fuzz), but I did consider redoing it with a "nicer" sound. In the end I guess I was too lazy

Historically I put the drums too high in the mix so I have started intentionally lowering them as far as I can.. I may have overdid it but possibly it is more that the main riff guitar is just very overpowering?

Thanks for listening and commenting!

glowrak guy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 11:08 pm

While I'm not a 'metal fan', I do enjoy distortion and saturation, and I reduced the amplitude of your song using Audacity, by 2.0, being advised by Imposter

I am not sure what this means apart from just turning down the volume with the volume knob?

glowrak guy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 11:08 pm

I then enjoyed the distortion, as it was unique within my limited frame of reference, and not thrashing to my ears. I also liked the song structure, chords, patterns etc an easy ride for playing along, I was using some semi-less-than-metal tones using a chain of Camel Crusher, Z3ta+ Efffects version, and NI's Replika diffusion delay.

I think the first half of the song could use some jaunty shredding over the cool foundation
Cheers

Cool you liked the guitars, though as Impostor said, maybe a bit too gritty
So, you played along? That is very nice to hear

Hi, when using the Audacity amplify effect, it displays the current amplitube in relation to 0.0 dB, and presents
a slider to raise or lower it according to need. Your song showed itself to be recorded a bit hot,
with peaks up to .516 db over 0.0 dB which can introduce artifacts. But maybe in metal, that is a desired result
and even the default in some mastering circles. I like some headroom below 0.0dB.
My mod gives 1.484 dB headroom below 0.0dB. I don't compress/boost entire songs,
and mostly hand edit un-wanted peaks, and then adjust amplitude to where a listening device can raise the volume
without any extras. Keep in mind I'm not an expert, especially when it comes to the metal genre

'loudness wars' is long-running topic out in the wilds, the link below has screengrabs of a song's waveform in four historic releases
from 1980 to 2011, in the long-running 'battle':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

Here are before and after screenshots from a part your song waveform:

spamatica wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:10 pm

It's been a year, or something. And apparently it's time for a song!

Metal this time around. I'm not really sure how or why I end up with a certain style as I tend to be all over the place. Maybe it's as simple as I happened to have a downtuned electric guitar nearby?!
Checking, I see my first snippet was recorded about three weeks ago, so from there, going through a bunch of revisions, it was actually a quite fast recording process for me.
Mixed quite hot, I'm sure I overdid it here and there but I think it is done. At least until someone points out some glaring issue
Created completely with MusE, a lot of Calf plugins, some LSP plugins and Addictive Drums.

Do let me know what you think!
https://soundcloud.com/cdee/jarnjazz-same-lame-game

Cool song and cool voice.

First thought: I'd make the guitar a bit quieter and the drums a bit louder to increase the song's power.

But after some time of listening I wasn't so sure anymore.

Maybe only the snare drum should be a bit snappier (e.g. with a transient designer plugin). Kick is fine.

The song has -9.3 LUFS which means you will win many loudness wars

bluebell wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 7:07 am

First thought: I'd make the guitar a bit quieter and the drums a bit louder to increase the song's power.

But after some time of listening I wasn't so sure anymore.

That's threshold shift.

glowrak guy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 8:35 pm

But maybe in metal, that is a desired result

I'd say no, that's not desired (I'm a sort of metal fan myself). But then, there may be a disconnect between what artists, producers, and listeners find desirable. Just read up on Metallica's Death Magnetic fiasco.

glowrak guy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 8:35 pm

Hi, when using the Audacity amplify effect, it displays the current amplitube in relation to 0.0 dB, and presents
a slider to raise or lower it according to need. Your song showed itself to be recorded a bit hot,
with peaks up to .516 db over 0.0 dB which can introduce artifacts. But maybe in metal, that is a desired result
and even the default in some mastering circles. I like some headroom below 0.0dB.

Huh, today I learned. The master .wav peaks at -0.3 db. Apparently mp3 can introduce higher peaks, even over 0.0 db.

bluebell wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 7:07 am

Cool song and cool voice.

Thanks

bluebell wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 7:07 am

First thought: I'd make the guitar a bit quieter and the drums a bit louder to increase the song's power.

But after some time of listening I wasn't so sure anymore.

Maybe only the snare drum should be a bit snappier (e.g. with a transient designer plugin). Kick is fine.

The song has -9.3 LUFS which means you will win many loudness wars

And thanks again... I guess
I've had bad experiences mixing snappy snares so I tend to move away from those. Probably you are right, the snare is too tame.

Impostor wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:01 am

glowrak guy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 8:35 pm

But maybe in metal, that is a desired result

I'd say no, that's not desired (I'm a sort of metal fan myself). But then, there may be a disconnect between what artists, producers, and listeners find desirable. Just read up on Metallica's Death Magnetic fiasco.

It is true that Death Magnetic was mastered to levels that should probably not be used, but I disagree that hot mixes are not desired.
Especially in metal it is the standard. Sometimes it is over done, but it is done because it works. The mix gets more power and aggressiveness.

Out of curiosity I took a "random" song; Gojira - Amazonia (which I have listened to quite a lot and like the sound of) and checked the LUFS value and it was way above -8. Unless I'm measuring wrong.

spamatica wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:44 pm

glowrak guy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 8:35 pm

Hi, when using the Audacity amplify effect, it displays the current amplitube in relation to 0.0 dB, and presents
a slider to raise or lower it according to need. Your song showed itself to be recorded a bit hot,
with peaks up to .516 db over 0.0 dB which can introduce artifacts. But maybe in metal, that is a desired result
and even the default in some mastering circles. I like some headroom below 0.0dB.

Huh, today I learned. The master .wav peaks at -0.3 db. Apparently mp3 can introduce higher peaks, even over 0.0 db.

And there are the so-called inter sample peaks.

As a protection and a rule of thumb I set the output volume of the limiter at the end of the output bus (last processing stage) to -0.7 dB.

spamatica wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:44 pm

Especially in metal it is the standard. Sometimes it is over done, but it is done because it works. The mix gets more power and aggressiveness.
Out of curiosity I took a "random" song; Gojira - Amazonia (which I have listened to quite a lot and like the sound of) and checked the LUFS value and it was way above -8. Unless I'm measuring wrong.

Yeah, I checked Voivod's Synchro Anarchy, and that one's even above -6 LUFS on some parts, and I think that album doesn't sound overly compressed at all. But there are certain samples at 0dB where it possibly clips. And that (in a professional recording) should be avoided, imo. If I want it louder I can use the volume controller on my amplifier.

Edit: I checked only the mp3 I ripped. So maybe the cd itself stays safely below 0dB.

Impostor wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:32 pm

Yeah, I checked Voivod's Synchro Anarchy, and that one's even above -6 LUFS on some parts, and I think that album doesn't sound overly compressed at all. But there are certain samples at 0dB where it possibly clips. And that (in a professional recording) should be avoided, imo. If I want it louder I can use the volume controller on my amplifier.

Edit: I checked only the mp3 I ripped. So maybe the cd itself stays safely below 0dB.

The CD format has 16-bit samples where the max values are 0db, so by definition they cannot go above.

Anyway... a new song with Blink 182 just appeared in my feed, reigniting my interest in loudness so I had to share some data

I recall when Green Day released American Idiot in the early 2000s. Great album but just about the loudest record I have ever heard, causing severe listening fatigue...
I checked now and the song American Idiot has LUFS -4.8 for a short snippet. Insanely loud. Still it is a working mix, probably helps that there are so few instruments.

Back to Blink 182 and their new song DANCE WITH ME. Same kind of three piece band but they seem to have dropped every pretense of making it listenable. Maybe the fired the mastering engineer and just put all sliders at the max and called it a day. The chorus, where it's at it's loudest, LUFS goes up to -4.0 !! And it does not sound good.

Just wanted to share : P

spamatica wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 4:30 pm

Back to Blink 182 and their new song DANCE WITH ME. Same kind of three piece band but they seem to have dropped every pretense of making it listenable. Maybe the fired the mastering engineer and just put all sliders at the max and called it a day. The chorus, where it's at it's loudest, LUFS goes up to -4.0 !! And it does not sound good.
Just wanted to share : P

Yeah, that chorus could've benefitted from a touch of subtlety. The rest of the track sounds very clean though, imo.

spamatica wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 6:29 pm

Yeah, the main guitar ended up VERY distorted, partly intentional (I think I used some kind of fuzz), but I did consider redoing it with a "nicer" sound. In the end I guess I was too lazy

That guitar tone is awesome! Typical "southern metal" riffer.

Amazing solo!