Looking for a decent audio interface ~ €400,-

[osterchrisi]

Hi!

Some time ago I purchased a Laptop (Dell) and now I need to get a nice soundcard, i.e. audio interface. I purchased a Lexicon Omega Studio because it seemed a nice deal and also like it quite much - but I can't get it to work properly, so...
What would you suggest? I need:
- 4 jack inputs (but not necessarely more)
- 4 outputs (2 x 2) would be nice but not necessary
- A niiiiiiiccccceee A/D converter, I'm sick of bad sound and noise all the time...

What I don't need:
- More than 2 mic preamps (I have them outboard) - although the dbx on my Lexicon sound nice
- Digital stuff or Spdif (although this comes more or less with every interface...)

Mostly I will need it to do stuff in the box, so I really have a strong need for a nice sound. Sometimes (once a month or so) I need it to record some one or two synthesizers. I want to spend up to € 400,- for this and I have no idea if USB or FireWire is better - my laptop supports them both....

Thanks for any advice and thoughts on this!!!
chrisi

[autostatic]

Hello Osterchrisi, and welcome! Your Lexicon should work, it's fully supported. So maybe it's an idea to get that device working and save you the trouble of looking, choosing and buying a new device? What is it that you can't get to work?

[osterchrisi]

Ok, now after looking quite a few days after this problem I figured out: I must not use my USB mouse simultaneously when I use the audio interface. They are OR-ing each other, speaking logically.

Now one more thing: I should be able to set the input channels to 4, right? Because when I do that, Jack doesn't start up ("cannot set channel count to 4 for capture") and when I don't it just gives me two inputs. I tried settings up to 12 inputs channels (I thought maybe it takes also the S/PDIF and MIDI channels...)

Any idea about that?

Thaaaaanks!!

[autostatic]

Ok, now after looking quite a few days after this problem I figured out: I must not use my USB mouse simultaneously when I use the audio interface. They are OR-ing each other, speaking logically.

That's very well possible. Maybe you could post the output of the terminal commands lsusb and cat /proc/interrupts with the Lexicon attached?

Now one more thing: I should be able to set the input channels to 4, right?

Apparently the Omega has 4 inputs, but I doubt if this will work in a stable manner given the limitations of USB1.1. But if it works in Windows, it should work with Linux also.

Because when I do that, Jack doesn't start up ("cannot set channel count to 4 for capture") and when I don't it just gives me two inputs. I tried settings up to 12 inputs channels (I thought maybe it takes also the S/PDIF and MIDI channels...)

Can you post the output of the terminal commands aplay -l (output ports) and arecord -l (input ports)?

[raboof]

I figured out: I must not use my USB mouse simultaneously when I use the audio interface. They are OR-ing each other, speaking logically.

That is strange. If you have the time, could you paste the output of 'aplay -l' when the interface works and the output of the same command when the interface does not work?

Now one more thing: I should be able to set the input channels to 4, right? Because when I do that, Jack doesn't start up ("cannot set channel count to 4 for capture") and when I don't it just gives me two inputs.

Hmm, long shot: perhaps try lowering the sample rate? USB1 won't be able to handle 4 full duplex connections at higher sample rates.

[osterchrisi]

Thanks for your time.
lsusb with both devices attached (Microdia is the audio interface):

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chrisi@mobstation:~$ lsusb
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0c45:6417 Microdia 
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 8087:0020  
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 010: ID 05fe:0011 Chic Technology Corp. Browser Mouse
Bus 002 Device 009: ID 1210:0002  
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 8087:0020  
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

/proc/interrupts with both devices attached:

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cat /proc/interrupts
           CPU0       CPU1       CPU2       CPU3       
  0:         24          0          0          0   IO-APIC-edge      timer
  1:       1256        868        917        887   IO-APIC-edge      i8042
  8:          0          0          0          1   IO-APIC-edge      rtc0
  9:      10828       9341       9418       9316   IO-APIC-fasteoi   acpi
 12:     252330     180411     181045     180544   IO-APIC-edge      i8042
 16:         72         17         17         14   IO-APIC-fasteoi   ehci_hcd:usb1, mmc0
 17:      95370      85482      85557      85982   IO-APIC-fasteoi   eth1
 19:          1          0          2          1   IO-APIC-fasteoi   ohci1394
 23:    2110448    2085431    2086721    2085455   IO-APIC-fasteoi   ehci_hcd:usb2
 24:         40          0          0          0  HPET_MSI-edge      hpet2
 25:          0          0          0          0  HPET_MSI-edge      hpet3
 26:          0          0          0          0  HPET_MSI-edge      hpet4
 27:          0          0          0          0  HPET_MSI-edge      hpet5
 34:      43784      22575      22424      22386   PCI-MSI-edge      ahci
 35:          0          0          0          0   PCI-MSI-edge      eth0
 36:         44         48         45         44   PCI-MSI-edge      hda_intel
 37:          0          0          0          0   PCI-MSI-edge      hda_intel
 38:     167454     185615     168748     168732   PCI-MSI-edge      fglrx[0]@PCI:2:0:0
NMI:          0          0          0          0   Non-maskable interrupts
LOC:    1354643    1388215    1582008    1365733   Local timer interrupts
SPU:          0          0          0          0   Spurious interrupts
CNT:          0          0          0          0   Performance counter interrupts
PND:          0          0          0          0   Performance pending work
RES:     367541     347371     368628     334185   Rescheduling interrupts
CAL:       2403       2551       3154       3847   Function call interrupts
TLB:       1472       2982       3489       2380   TLB shootdowns
TRM:          0          0          0          0   Thermal event interrupts
THR:          0          0          0          0   Threshold APIC interrupts
MCE:          0          0          0          0   Machine check exceptions
MCP:         42         42         42         42   Machine check polls
ERR:          0
MIS:          0

I run a 64-bit system by the way - but for having better audio performance I would change to 32-bit, don't know if that makes any sense...

aplay -l

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chrisi@mobstation:~$ aplay -l
**** Liste von PLAYBACK Geräten ****
Karte 0: Intel [HDA Intel], Gerät 0: STAC92xx Analog [STAC92xx Analog]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0
Karte 1: HDMI [HDA ATI HDMI], Gerät 3: ATI HDMI [ATI HDMI]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0
Karte 2: Omega [Lexicon Omega], Gerät 0: USB Audio [USB Audio]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0
Karte 2: Omega [Lexicon Omega], Gerät 1: USB Audio [USB Audio #1]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0

and arecord -l

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chrisi@mobstation:~$ arecord -l
**** Liste von CAPTURE Geräten ****
Karte 0: Intel [HDA Intel], Gerät 0: STAC92xx Analog [STAC92xx Analog]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 2/2
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '1: subdevice #1
Karte 2: Omega [Lexicon Omega], Gerät 0: USB Audio [USB Audio]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0
Karte 2: Omega [Lexicon Omega], Gerät 1: USB Audio [USB Audio #1]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0

Lowering the samplerate (down to 22050) didn't help any. The Omega should be able to put out two stero sums... Also in the manual there was a hint for Mac OS systems to 're-initialize' the interface by pressing a certain combination of buttons on the device. I tried if that helps any with the input issue but it didn't...

Thanks again for your time!!!

[osterchrisi]

Oh and forgot:
aplay -l when the device doesn't work:
(same one as in the above posting)

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chrisi@mobstation:~$ aplay -l
**** Liste von PLAYBACK Geräten ****
Karte 0: Intel [HDA Intel], Gerät 0: STAC92xx Analog [STAC92xx Analog]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0
Karte 1: HDMI [HDA ATI HDMI], Gerät 3: ATI HDMI [ATI HDMI]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0
Karte 2: Omega [Lexicon Omega], Gerät 0: USB Audio [USB Audio]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0
Karte 2: Omega [Lexicon Omega], Gerät 1: USB Audio [USB Audio #1]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0

and aplay -l when it works:

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chrisi@mobstation:~$ aplay -l
**** Liste von PLAYBACK Geräten ****
Karte 0: Intel [HDA Intel], Gerät 0: STAC92xx Analog [STAC92xx Analog]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0
Karte 1: HDMI [HDA ATI HDMI], Gerät 3: ATI HDMI [ATI HDMI]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0
Karte 2: Omega [Lexicon Omega], Gerät 0: USB Audio [USB Audio]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 1/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0
Karte 2: Omega [Lexicon Omega], Gerät 1: USB Audio [USB Audio #1]
  Untergeordnete Geräte: 0/1
  Untergeordnetes Gerät '0: subdevice #0

As far as I can see there's only one differnce, it's in the second last line "0/1" in working mode in comparison to "1/1" in the not working mode.

[autostatic]

It looks like ALSA groups the output pairs as two separate soundcards. So hw:Omega,0 are your first two inputs and hw:Omega,1 inputs 3 and 4. Same for your outputs. At the moment I have no idea how you could use these two separate Omega instances in Jack. Maybe it can be done with Jack2, not sure. Or, maybe it's possible to create a custom asoundrc file. If I have some time I'll look into it.
And why it doesn't always work, it seems like ALSA doesn't initialise the card correctly every time.

[autostatic]

And is it possible to post the output of aplay -L ?
Not necessary anymore, found it via the Ardour forum: http://pastebin.com/PM1ZjKBj

[autostatic]

Maybe an .asoundrc file like this could work for you:

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pcm.mt4 {
     type multi
     slaves.a.pcm "hw:Omega,0";
     slaves.a.channels 2;
     slaves.b.pcm "hw:Omega,1";
     slaves.b.channels 2;

     bindings.0.slave a;
     bindings.0.channel 0;
     bindings.1.slave a;
     bindings.1.channel 1;
     bindings.2.slave b;
     bindings.2.channel 0;
     bindings.3.slave b;
     bindings.3.channel 1;
}
 
ctl.mt4 {
     type hw
     card 0
}

pcm.multi4 {
     type route;
     slave.pcm "mt4";
     ttable.0.0 1;
     ttable.1.1 1;
     ttable.2.2 1;
     ttable.3.3 1;
}
 
ctl.multi4 {
     type hw;
     card 0;
}

This should create a virtual soundcard 'multi4' that you can use with JACK by entering 'hw:multi4' in the Interfaces field. Can't guarantee that it works, I don't have anything I could test with.

But all in all I think the Lexicon should be recognised as a single card with 4 channels. I also searched the ALSA bugtracker and couldn't find anything.

Sources: http://quicktoots.linuxaudio.org/toots/el-cheapo/
http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/TwoCardsAsOne

[osterchrisi]

Ok, great! Thanks for time and help my friend!
I will try it as soon as I find time as I move my appartment these days, I will report my efforts!

Thanks a lot!!!

[osterchrisi]

Mhm, no not really...
I tried different settings now and juggled around a little with the .asoundrc but I couldn't get it to work. I think in my case it's not two cards I want to merge to one as suggested in the TwoCardsAsOne page, I have the feeling that really two inputs are simply not recognized by alsa...

As far is I figured out, I can only use "Omega,1" for capture - also if I take my built-in soundcard as output and not the Lexicon Omega for example. Capture Only mode is not working at all, no matter what device I choose. For Playback Only mode I can use any of the Omega devices, that is "Omega", "Omega,0" and "Omega,1".

And yes: I know that it should work out of the box

[autostatic]

Hello osterchrisi, maybe settings like this might help:
http://www.joegiampaoli.com/blog/wp-con ... ackctl.jpg

Ok, it is for a M-Audio Fast Track Pro but I have the idea your device is kind of similar. Replace 'hw:5' for 'hw:Omega', maybe it works. And also raise the sample rate to 480000. And forget about the .asoundrc file, the solution is not in that file I think, sorry to have wasted your time with that.

[osterchrisi]

Hey, you don't waste my time. You give me hope
Sorry for not responding so long, due to moving I was off the internet for a few days...

It doesn't work with this setting neither, I only have 2 input channels. This is so weird. I see posts popping up in the internet like mushrooms saying "Lexicon Omega works perfectly out of the box" - except for mine... Actually it works - but not with 4 inputs...

I have no idea how to fix this...

[osterchrisi]

Maybe this helps.
It's the output of my system protocol when I plug in the audio interface:

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May  8 15:12:43 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.598027] usb 2-1.3: new full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 4
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.762475] usb 2-1.3: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.774841] ALSA pcm.c:194: 4:1:1: cannot get freq at ep 0x1
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.778395] ALSA pcm.c:194: 4:1:2: cannot get freq at ep 0x1
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.782828] ALSA pcm.c:194: 4:2:1: cannot get freq at ep 0x83
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.786798] ALSA pcm.c:194: 4:2:2: cannot get freq at ep 0x83
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.801798] ALSA pcm.c:194: 4:4:1: cannot get freq at ep 0x2
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.805789] ALSA pcm.c:194: 4:4:2: cannot get freq at ep 0x2
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.810028] ALSA pcm.c:194: 4:5:1: cannot get freq at ep 0x85
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.813774] ALSA pcm.c:194: 4:5:2: cannot get freq at ep 0x85
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.830697] ALSA pcm.c:194: 4:9:1: cannot get freq at ep 0x1
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.834428] ALSA pcm.c:194: 4:9:2: cannot get freq at ep 0x1
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.838668] ALSA pcm.c:194: 4:10:1: cannot get freq at ep 0x83
May  8 15:12:44 mobstation kernel: [ 6246.842478] ALSA pcm.c:194: 4:10:2: cannot get freq at ep 0x83

Is there any chance that this device is maybe broken? I could still send it back and get my money on Monday... Because why should it work everywhere else but not on my station?