When is enough, enough..?

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Impostor
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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by Impostor »

Can't you automate AMSynth with midi cc?

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by Gps »

I have no idea, what is MIDI cc ? :)

The normal automation way of LMMS only works for most windows vst, and their inbuild synths, and only a few knobs of zasfx.

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by bluzee »

Microsoft seems to think they own my pc.

As long as you have to their product on the machine I think they actually do. The license code is written directly into the bios chip now. Even if you completely remove MS system that stays. I'm not sure what else they might be doing but the people bringing me machines for installs don't even want the MS system started.

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by Impostor »

Gps wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:04 pm

I have no idea, what is MIDI cc ? :)

The normal automation way of LMMS only works for most windows vst, and their inbuild synths, and only a few knobs of zasfx.

You'd need to install the 1.3.0.alpha1 version for midi cc.
https://lmms.io/download#linux

Changes in 2021-04-26 releases
Adds support for MIDI CC events inside LMMS (#5581, #5824)

See https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/5581
In the plugin you can assign synth controls to midi cc numbers. And in the automation track you can automate these midi messages.

I don't use lmms myself, so I have no idea if it works as expected.

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by Gps »

Thank you. :D

Something I need to try, I probably already have the right LMMS version, thanks to geekos.

Something like kvr but for openssue.
https://geekosdaw.tuxfamily.org/en/

Seeing automation with Carla in LMMS already makes me smile.

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by ufug »

GMaq wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:31 pm

Then I look at Debian Bookworm; Sysvinit, systemd, runit, GTK2, GTK3, and (shudder) GTK4/libadwaita... QT5, QT6... Plasma, Gnome, Cinnamon, XFCE4, LXQT, Enlightenment, Budgie (that's the surface only...) PulseAudio/PipeWire...Snap/Flatpak/Appimage... LADSPA,LV2,VST,VST3,CLAP and on and on and on.

I can't imagine how thwarted you must feel with the relentless chaos.

I didn't switch to Linux til 2006 and I'm just a desktop user who doesn't understand the development world, so take my comments with a grain of salt. But I've had a long-standing bewilderment about one thing: Aside from work on the kernel, why is 90% of userland work/attention/focus seemingly put into constantly reinventing desktop environments?

Like, they already worked flawlessly years ago. What's missing is the same amount of effort on applications regular people use for work and play. GIMP and Inkscape are no more competitive with Photoshop and Illustrator than they were 15+ years ago. OpenOffice/LibreOffice still pale compared to MS Office if you need advanced functions. These are the kinds of things 98% of folks ask about if you suggest Linux as an alternative on the desktop.

Why don't massive corps like Red Hat or Canonical think: We must dedicate some small percentage of our staff to the creation of a stunning office suite and the tools required to create amazing A/V content! We'll promote FOSS and make (even more) bank on support packages to schools and businesses! Instead they keep f*ing around with sound servers and building (or re-building) DEs over and over just to get back to where they already were.

It's cool that there is snap and appimage and flatpak to solve some perceived (imaginary imho) problems with repos, but does it matter if there's almost nothing interesting to install? :? :twisted:

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by GMaq »

@ufug

Amen to everything you said brother!

The whole having three separate Packaging formats to err... uhm... eliminate separate Packaging formats is one of the last coffin nails for me... wheel re-invention brought to new heights... Flatpaks now pull in all their support dependencies and essentially behave on the system like APT/DPKG always did except much less efficiently. They had something with AppImage.... self-contained in the User's home folder but of course it's the one getting quietly phased out, why...? Probably because Canonical couldn't get their hooks into it..

Windows is far from perfect but I used Win10 free for 2 years before registering it and I had the option of turning off at least some of the telemetry. I can understand not liking it's closed source and therefore difficult to customize nature and I can understand preferring the open collaborative nature of FLOSS software choices (most of these FLOSS choices are now available for Windows BTW, it seems even many Linux developers even see it as a market worth pursuing). I was introduced to FLOSS by Windows, it's also been a choice there all along. Vendor Lock in with commercial software is always a potential problem but I'm using plenty of commercial Linux software so not immune to it on either OS.. But this talk of somehow being indentured servants to Microsoft if you use Windows... I'm sorry but I just don't see it, perhaps 15 years ago but not in the current era.. I'm sorry but Canonical is quickly becoming equally if not more invasive than present day Microsoft. In the end 99% of us are running all of these systems on closed hardware so complete "Freedom" is an illusion anyway...

For me in the end it's coming down to tolerance for daily bullshit brought to me by whatever particular computer frontend I'm using and sorry to say currently it ain't Windows bringing the complexity, it does what I ask and rarely complains..

Last edited by GMaq on Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

A big part of the problem is that massive software projects (ie, lots of complex source code) require a very well-organized, committed (ie, devs who put in regular hours working on the software, typically being paid to do so), compatible (able to work in the same programming language, similiar amounts of experience, good at communicating, etc) team of programmers. Most OSS projects lack the manpower and organization to accomplish such projects. I've found that you can get a lot done with a small dev team, but to do so you have to have people who are exemplary at documentation and communication. Guess what traits are uncommon among OSS devs?

As long as OSS is primarily done by isolated hobbyist programmers, working for free in their spare time, then expect things to continue as they have.

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

ufug wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:35 pm

[...], why is 90% of userland work/attention/focus seemingly put into constantly reinventing desktop environments?

Like, they already worked flawlessly years ago. [...]

That makes me think of the change from Gnome 2 to Gnome 3, which might be one of the things you mean. To me as a user that seemed completely useless, but on the other hand I also do believe 'm when they sort of imply that that was necessary (might have something to do with change from X to Wayland, security etc.).

That "re inventing the wheel" isn't nice for us long time users, but as long as there's XFCE, LXDE etc. I can live with that. However, like others said, it's the investment of their scarce time and money in completely unnecessary bullshit like the snap software thingy, the deprecated much hated Unity desktop, etc. is where I give up. It costs money and time and they could have known from the beginning that it would lead to fragmentation and thus to nowhere.

Then there's applications like good ol' Mozilla Thunderbird that don't work properly no more with Google Contacts and G. Calendar. I switched from Evolution to T.bird for that 10 years ago and now Evolution appears to have Google support and T.bird doesn't. So it is possible, but Mozilla simply missed the boat. Mozilla did however invest their precious time and energy in ... changing the interface/theme to an incomprehensible black and white mess. At least The Gimp still offers a good 'ol interface/theme with colors. Microsoft did the same shite with MS Office in 2007 but they at least stuck with it and it's really new/different.

Something as basic a checking your e-mail shouldn't be that difficult. By the way, I'm glad that LibreOffice didn't change its interface like MS Office did. Lots of people like LO better than MSO because of that. That is, if MSO still exists. Isn't it an on-line service now that you have to pay for per year now? Oh, come on MS!

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by MattKingUSA »

Thinking back to the release of both kde 4 and pulse audio, things were in very unstable shape. But it was exciting to try out the new tech. Being a Linux user is being a continual tester. I have zero experience with packaging for or maintaining a distro. But I can see how it would feel impossible at times.

As a user I have always enjoyed the early adoption of new tech by distros. Even with the instability that goes along with it.

There are only a few things that have made me irritable in the past

  1. Optical disks no longer being written as auto mount in fstab.
  2. Kde removing the desktop cube. (Would have to be almost entirely rewritten to be compatible with current plasma)
  3. Fsv not being maintained any longer.
  4. Depreciated libraries that break previously working software.

-Matt :D

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

In the end my biggest gripe is that when it's time to upgrade your distro then you never know if your software will still work. That stuff makes me consider switching back to Windows every time. Because that you'll have to do only once in your life.

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by MattKingUSA »

I agree with the frustration. There is software like bombono and Loki games that I still use but I have to have an offline system to use them. I guess virtual machines or containers would also work nicely. But often times there are ways to continue to use software when projects are abandoned. And some distros like pclinuxos keep old libraries in their repos. I wouldn't ever switch to windows myself but I would consider switching to kolibri if they got https working 😃

-Matt :D

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by Gps »

I have been wondering often, what an awesome daw we could have on Linux, if the Ardour and LMMS devs would be working together.

There is definitely too much reinventing the wheel on my favorite OS.

KDE adding more and more new stuff, I feel I do not need. I need a gui to start programs and open files.
Something we could already do on an Atari ST...

But no, lets add more features so that if I move my mouse to a corner of the screen, I see all opened windows.
Why ? :?

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by khz »

Linuxmusician01 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:18 pm

In the end my biggest gripe is that when it's time to upgrade your distro then you never know if your software will still work. That stuff makes me consider switching back to Windows every time. Because that you'll have to do only once in your life.

I hear similar things in another forum from Mac or Windows users.

A Mac OS is probably the best OS for audio, although there are also the users strongly consider whether they upgrade because possibly something in e.g. audio software no longer works or more telemetry, advertising, important services running in the background such as Amazon, ... which is not or only difficult to turn off.

Ultimately, a computer, rather the software - ideally - is constantly in development and not yet mature, whether you want that or not and no matter which platform you use, TempleOS, ... times excluded. Computers are a relatively new development and it is ultimately technology.
And I like it even the diverse chaos and the constant development of technology. Also the open, sharing, the GNU thought. Software sided I find the development the last years better and better, there are more and more (commercial) audio software offered. The computer hardware is also no longer so the chicken egg problem.

For making music I prefer to use "real" instruments (piano, guitar, bass, drums, ...) that you can also play and do not have to update. You just play them - now. The recording e.g. makes then a computer, whereby I have recorded the last 40 years nothing.

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Re: When is enough, enough..?

Post by bluzee »

Linuxmusician01 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:43 am

Then there's applications like good ol' Mozilla Thunderbird that don't work properly no more with Google Contacts and G. Calendar.

I use Google Calendar with Thunderbird. Works fine. Its an extension that you have to add and setup. Contacts also has an extension but I don't use it with Thunderbird.

Gnome2 to Gnome3 was a bizarre time in history but without that Cinnamon probably wouldn't have happened and I love Cinnamon.

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