(SOLVED) Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

MusE is a DAW for Linux with both MIDI and Audio editing. https://muse-sequencer.github.io

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(SOLVED) Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by onefang »

I'm working on a song I'm wanting to add reggae dub type echoes to. In this case a fretless bass phrase, where the last note echoes, then later do the same to another instance of the same phrase.

So I have a Synth track with a Yoshimi Fretless Bass preset. I added GxEcho-Stereo LV2 to an FX slot. At the bottom of that FX Generic GUI is a BYPASS on/off control, I right click on that MIDI control -> Assign. In the MIDI control window that pops up I set the port to the same one used for the MIDI note input track, the same channel as that MIDI track, and the control type to Aftertouch (seems appropriate and not using that for anything else coz my MIDI keyboard doesn't have that feature.)

BYPASS seems to be the only one with the Automation menu, would be nice to have the other controls automated as well.

I try the usual automation controls in that menu, which work fine for mixer automation. It adds events at the right place, I can Previous / Next to them, but they are not changing the state of that BYPASS control. Adding aftertouch events to the MIDI track doesn't do anything to that control either. Manually turning the BYPASS control on and off turns the echo effect on and off. The aftertouch events are not turning it on and off.

Am I missing something? Doing it wrong? Some other echo effect will work better?

I'm using MusE git head that I compile myself.

Last edited by onefang on Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by Impostor »

If you don't need 'live' control, can't you just select and draw the automation on the synth's automation track? All automatable parameters of plugins in the effects column appear there. No need for midi messages at all that way.

I don't know how generic GUI midi automation works (I can only get it to respond to messages sent from my midi keyboard, not to midi messages drawn in the midi track).

Does MusE support sending midi from midi tracks to effects plugins at all?

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Re: Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by onefang »

Odd, I closed down MusE, and went off to do other things. Started it up again, your mention of the synth's automation track prompted me to open the Automation Display menu on that track, Show All with Events, and my previously added events show up. Now playing the song and the effect turns on and off when it should, and I hear the echoes when I should.

I was only trying the MIDI aftertouch messages while trying to get things to work.

Generic MIDI automation works for me. Open the piano roll, add a controller view for the events you want to edit, then draw them. They show up on the track view.

As for sending MIDI from MIDI tracks to effects, that's what the "At the bottom of that FX Generic GUI is a BYPASS on/off control, I right click on that MIDI control -> Assign." thing I tried is supposed to do, it automatically selected the MIDI track that synth track was attached to, automatically selected the channel the MIDI track was set to, that let me choose which MIDI event to use, and the value of it.

Now that it's working, I've saved it, and I'll fiddle with it more to see what I can find out.

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Re: Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by onefang »

I've removed those MIDI aftertouch events, and it's still all working the way I want it to. Think I'll just stop fiddling with it and continue making music. Now I know how to make it work, time to add more ECHO! echo echo echo ...

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Re: Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by Impostor »

onefang wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:18 pm

Generic MIDI automation works for me. Open the piano roll, add a controller view for the events you want to edit, then draw them. They show up on the track view.

As for sending MIDI from MIDI tracks to effects, that's what the "At the bottom of that FX Generic GUI is a BYPASS on/off control, I right click on that MIDI control -> Assign." t.

Strange. Doesn't work here at all. The "assign" menu lets me choose from a meager selection of "control types" but if I select, say, control14, and draw events in the pianoroll for control 14, they have no effect.

I also tried to assign a controller with "learn" in the same menu, by looping a midi part with control 14 continuously changing, but that doesn't work either..."Learn" only works with midi from my midi keyboard.

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Re: Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by onefang »

I'll mention again I'm compiling my own from git head, so this might not work in actually released versions. I'm not seeing any "Assign" menu, so I guess you are not using version 4.1.

Pianoroll for a MIDI track.

On the toolbar there is now a "Add controller view" widget, gear icon with a green plus sign. Click on that you get a menu -> Common Controls -> so many controls listed there's a sub menu at the bottom to show even more.

I know MainVolume at least works. Another reminder, I've only been using MusE for about two months, only been working on one song.

The "Learn" feature I think is only for learning incoming MIDI control signals. It certainly worked for mine, I put the transport controls on some buttons on my MIDI keyboard, and pan on one of the knobs.

Now I'm trying to find what units the time on that echo effect is. So I can do some maths to get it to echo on the beat. Guitarix docs are useless, not getting anywhere with web searches. Think I'll feed it a click and use a stopwatch. lol

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Re: (SOLVED) Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by onefang »

Odd, setting the time control to 2000 is about 2.25 seconds. Might be some delay or lag. My latency is 5.33 msec.

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Re: (SOLVED) Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by onefang »

Ah I was wrong. The other effects parameters are automatable, just not MIDI controllable. Well you can colour them in the Automation display menu at least.

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Re: (SOLVED) Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by Impostor »

onefang wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:54 pm

Ah I was wrong. The other effects parameters are automatable, just not MIDI controllable. Well you can colour them in the Automation display menu at least.

They are midi controllable, but not from events drawn in a midi part on a midi track. Only from an external midi controller. But MusE 4.1 (appimage) seems to have a bug with live automation, which is gone in the master appimage. See the relevant thread just next to this one.

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Re: (SOLVED) Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by onefang »

Well I got my echo turning on and off at the right places. I've run out of MIDI buttons to assign, but editing the echo on and off manually is fine.

So I got all the basics in there now. To quote (perhaps misquote) a song (can't recall the name or the artist) "A producer with computers fixes all my shitty tracks". Only I'm both the producer and the artist. Next step is to pluck out all the halfway decent playings of the main bass theme, clone them so the instrument layering is fine, and try to hide the more shitty ones under something else. All the non fun parts. lol

Once the entire thing is half way decent, then I might hook up some of the echo controls to MIDI knobs and see what I can do.

Edit: Ben Folds - Rockin' the suburbs, and I was close "That some producer with computers fixes all my shitty tracks".

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Re: (SOLVED) Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by Impostor »

@onefang:

I saw your issue at the MusE github thingy about exporting single midi tracks.

MusE>Settings>Midi File Import/Export: Export tab: set Format to 0 (single track).

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Re: (SOLVED) Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by onefang »

Impostor wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:03 pm

@onefang:

I saw your issue at the MusE github thingy about exporting single midi tracks.

MusE>Settings>Midi File Import/Export: Export tab: set Format to 0 (single track).

I just tried that, it exports ALL the MIDI tracks as a single track, instead of just the one I have selected. Also it left out the lyric MIDI events, which was the whole point, so I can feed the MIDI with lyric events to OddVoices, so it can generate .wav files of singing the lyrics with the proper tones and timing.

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Re: (SOLVED) Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by Impostor »

onefang wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:45 pm

I just tried that, it exports ALL the MIDI tracks as a single track, instead of just the one I have selected.

Hmm..Was worth a shot. Looking at the MusE menus, it seems to have a lot of midi possibilities, but I have no clue to what it all means. Good luck!

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Re: (SOLVED) Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by Tim E. Real »

The suggestion of exporting only selected tracks is worthwhile.
It should in theory be relatively straightforward to add.
I will try to squeeze it in at some point.

All metas including lyrics should be exported.
I think even in single-track mode too but I'll have to check.

Feel free to file an issue on github for your request and any issues, so we don't forget.
[ Edit ] Ah, I think an issue was filed already...

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Re: (SOLVED) Turning FX on and off on a Synth track.

Post by onefang »

Tim E. Real wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:54 pm

The suggestion of exporting only selected tracks is worthwhile.
It should in theory be relatively straightforward to add.
I will try to squeeze it in at some point.

All metas including lyrics should be exported.
I think even in single-track mode too but I'll have to check.

Feel free to file an issue on github for your request and any issues, so we don't forget.
[ Edit ] Ah, I think an issue was filed already...

Yes, was already filed, Imposter was responding here to that issue.

I keep up to date with git head, so thanks for squeezing it in when you do.

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