LinuxMusicians

Hi,

after this discussion http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php ... =60#p10926
I wonder how you can do automation of standalone synths like zynaddsubfx using MIDI CC messages.

Can someone give an example how to do this? How more detail the better
Thanks!

The easiest way is to connect a hardware controller to a sequencer, and the sequencer to the softsynth, and record the knob or fader movement.
Otherwise it really depends on the sequencer you use. Sorry I can't give more details at the moment. But once you've worked it out, it's usually rather easy.

spm_gl wrote:The easiest way is to connect a hardware controller to a sequencer, and the sequencer to the softsynth, and record the knob or fader movement.
Otherwise it really depends on the sequencer you use.

mmh I don't have an hardware controller (other then a maudio keystation keyboard)...
The sequencers I use are qtractor, oomidi and non-sequencer.

But once you've worked it out, it's usually rather easy.

hehe Same I had with learning to walk... once you are able to do so, its usually rather easy

edit: Doing this in Ardour is pretty easy.
I tried to do so with non-mixer and non-daw, but couldn't figure out how it works actually (could be that non-mixer is not far enough in development (on my system)).

I'd really suggest using a midi sequencer, not a DAW, especially not Ardour. Audio automation is about levels and panning, and perhaps effect sends and the like. You want to automate a synth, so you really need to be able to manipulate any midi cc.
Have a look at various sequencers, and see if they allow you to draw controller values, for example in the piano roll (usually at the bottom, where the velocity is also drawn)

My quick test shows that Muse can display cc's on the piano roll, but only seems to allow me to edit them in the event list. Not very pratical.
Non-sequencer only offers the event list.
Non-Daw allows me to add lots of controls, and edit them happily on the timeline, but it only outputs them as "CV", which means I'd need a pd patch or similar to convert them into midi cc's.
I'll have a look at Rosegarden, once it's finished installing.

Rosegarden could work, but apart from being bloated, it is also rather complicated to add automation:
Draw event
Open in Martrix editor
Then under "View" I can add a controller, but for some reason only a select few.
This controller can then be edited by right-clicking and adding controller line.

I tried Seq24, but it keeps crashing on me. At least it allowed me to choose a midi CC by number.

Damn, this should be a lot easier. Even the ancient Cakewalk was lightyears better.
I think we have a great opportunity here for some developer to make the world a better place. Simply make non-daw's timeline controllers output midi CCs

For those not yet sick of my 5 minute automation survey:
QTractor actually works very well, only problem is it doesn't have a curve-drawing feature, so you need to write lots of little automation points. But it lets you select from all possible midi CCs. Just select "controller" in the midi clip editor, where it normally says "note" (or similar)

Then of course connect the midi output to your softsynth, and remember to define what synth knob is controlled by what CC (the midi mapping) in the synth.

Thank you very much!

Ok, next thing to figure out how to do the midi mapping (for zynaddsubfx and phasex for example).
Do you do the midi mapping in qtractor or the synth?

You'd have to do it in the synth. But a quick look at Zynadd tells me that there is no simple mapping to be found. There is a "controllers" screen, but that is only for the more general controllers. I wish it had Ardour's ctrl-middleclick midi bind...
AMS has a very good midi map setup ability. Phasex is not in my repos, and I'm to lazy to go searching for it.

In phasex you can load and save midi maps. But I don't know enough of it to make one, and don t know if there are some available on the internet...

I see an option 'source' which is set to midi key, as you can see on this screenshot, but dunno if that has anything to do with mapping
http://www.sysex.net/phasex/phasex-onepage.png
http://www.sysex.net/phasex/

From the phasex site:

ALSA MIDI Control: PHASEX receives its MIDI input via standard ALSA sequencer ports for full realtime control over any parameter. Parameter names are right clickable for quick and easy MIDI controller assignments. Each MIDI controller can be mapped to up to 15 parameters. Initial velocity/aftertouch support has been added in the latest beta.

And here is the Zynaddsubfx Midi implementation (seriously lacking, if you ask me):

http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/doc_3.html

spm_gl wrote:From the phasex site:

ALSA MIDI Control: PHASEX receives its MIDI input via standard ALSA sequencer ports for full realtime control over any parameter. Parameter names are right clickable for quick and easy MIDI controller assignments. Each MIDI controller can be mapped to up to 15 parameters. Initial velocity/aftertouch support has been added in the latest beta.

That's the trick for Phasex

spm_gl wrote:And here is the Zynaddsubfx Midi implementation (seriously lacking, if you ask me):

http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/doc_3.html

mmh would be a pity if it is lacking...

It seems automation on Linux needs pretty some improvements... maybe especially for the modular approach.
Ardour3 has improved automation. Qtractor automation is on it's way. It's a pita that you can't draw automation curves for external synths in qtractor yet. Non-daw and non-mixer are really promising but in development. Ams and Phasex seems to be ok for automation. Zynaddsubfx needs improvements (probably)...

As a sequencer, perhaps try Dino, it looks like it has a nice curve editor.

Hopefully the Yoshimi devs improve MIDI support. And FYI, I use Qtractor also to automate some basic things. And when it comes to MIDI then PHASEX is just great. Right click on a caption, twist a knob on your MIDI controller and that's it. For ZASFX/Yoshimi I've reserved a Program on my MIDI controller that I've set up according to the ZASFX docs. There is more you can control with NRPN's but I haven't looked at that in depth yet.