"Old New" (v2.0)

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finotti
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"Old New" (v2.0)

Post by finotti »

I decided to rework my first full production (from 5 years ago), since I was hoping that I could do a better job with these years of practice. (See my original post here in this forum: viewtopic.php?t=16926.) So I guess this is the new "Old New". ;-)

I reprogrammed the instruments, used new plugins, re-recorded the guitar parts (except for the solo, as I did not think I could improve on the old one), and remixed.

It was all done with Ardour (and version 7.0 fixed the MIDI problems I had before!), with mostly LSP, x42, Overtone DSP, and u-he plugins. The drums was DrumGizmo CrocellKit, bass was MODO Bass 2, synths were yoshimi, u-he's Repro, and Vitalium, the organ was IK Multumedia's Hammond B3-X. The guitars were re-recorded with tamgamp using the JCM800 model, and the tube screamer model from Guitarix.

I had a really hard time with the mix (as usual!), but hopefully it turned out OK.

Here is the song: https://luisfinotti.org/music/files/Old ... _08.03.mp3.

For more details, check my post at https://luisfinotti.org/music/rec_cur.html#oldnew2.

Let me know if you have any comments and/or suggestions to improve it, and thanks for checking it out!

Last edited by finotti on Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by Impostor »

That's a great track!

But, I prefer the sound of the snare in the original.

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by finotti »

Impostor wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:15 pm

That's a great track!

But, I prefer the sound of the snare in the original.

Thanks for checking! I will have to revisit the original and check the snare.

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by Rainmak3r »

Wow, as a fan of the 80's, your track is great on so many levels! I really loved the overall vibe and sound, but the guitars sound especially amazing: I haven't played with tangamp yet (I guess my POD X3 Live made me lazy!) but I doubt I'd be able to get it to sound as good as you did, especially considering I never managed to do much with guitarix either (and only because I stick to presets since I'm clueless, the software is great!). The solo after the quiet break is just fantastic!

I do have to agree that the drums sound a bit weird: I wouldn't know if they sound worse than before or not, but I remember you were the one who made me aware of CrocellKit, which sounded great, and here they do seem a bit off. Not sure if it's because of some effects, or possibly only some missing randomization of velocities which make them sound too "drum machine-y" (if that makes sense).

All in all, I'm glad you had something new to share, great work!

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by finotti »

Thanks (again) @Rainmak3r for checking!

Rainmak3r wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:30 pm

Wow, as a fan of the 80's, your track is great on so many levels! I really loved the overall vibe and sound, but the guitars sound especially amazing:

Thank you so much! I've seen your guitar work as well, so I don't take your compliments lightly. :-)

Rainmak3r wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:30 pm

I haven't played with tangamp yet (I guess my POD X3 Live made me lazy!) but I doubt I'd be able to get it to sound as good as you did, especially considering I never managed to do much with guitarix either (and only because I stick to presets since I'm clueless, the software is great!). The solo after the quiet break is just fantastic!

Thanks, again! But it is really easy to get a good sound of the tamgamp plugin. (I also never could get a sound I liked with guitarix...) :-( Just put a tube screamer plugin (like from guitarix) in front, and a use a good IR. (There are some good free ones.) I used the JCM800 high output model. It is really easy to dial it in.

Rainmak3r wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:30 pm

I do have to agree that the drums sound a bit weird: I wouldn't know if they sound worse than before or not, but I remember you were the one who made me aware of CrocellKit, which sounded great, and here they do seem a bit off. Not sure if it's because of some effects, or possibly only some missing randomization of velocities which make them sound too "drum machine-y" (if that makes sense).

Interesting... I did what I usually do and took hours manually tweaking the note placement and intensity to make it more human. But maybe I was a bit too cautious (to not make it too off) this time. Or maybe I've over compressed the drums this time. (I wonder if that's what drove impostor's comment. I must say I that after listening to the old one, overall I do prefer the new drums, though.) Maybe I will try another drum mix in a few days.

Rainmak3r wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:30 pm

All in all, I'm glad you had something new to share, great work!

Thanks again! I really appreciate it!

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by jeanette_c »

Hey, this is a very fun song! Great sounds in there! Sometimes, especially, in the intro the instruments still feel a little separate, but when the song gets going, this is really great!
And what counts even more than the very much improved production is, that it is a great song!

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by finotti »

Thanks @jeanette_c for checking!

jeanette_c wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:17 pm

Hey, this is a very fun song! Great sounds in there! Sometimes, especially, in the intro the instruments still feel a little separate,

Hmm.... Interesting. Any guesses what is the issue? I am not sure I can tell, but I've listen to it so many times that I might just be used to it by now.

jeanette_c wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:17 pm

but when the song gets going, this is really great!
And what counts even more than the very much improved production is, that it is a great song!

Thank you very much!

@Rainmak3r: I worked on the drums a little. They were really (accidentally) overcompressed. Some changes I made in the volumes pushed them too hard on the drum bus compressor. (I actually heard it, but I checked the compressor only of the individual instruments and not the bus... :roll:)

I am not sure if it makes much of a difference, but I do like it better myself. Here it is: https://luisfinotti.org/music/files/Old ... _09.53.mp3

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by jeanette_c »

finotti wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:58 pm

...

jeanette_c wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:17 pm

...
especially, in the intro the instruments still feel a little separate,

Hmm.... Interesting. Any guesses what is the issue?
...

I just listened again and either my ears are not as good or something. There is a slightly odd impression. It has to do with the cymbals. Some of it might be MP3 artefacts. The rides around 18-19 seconds appear very dry, compared to the rest. The crashes before that, as I said, appear to have some kind of artefact.
All in all, the drums are very up front, I don't just mean the volume, but the room they occupy, the spatial depth. I can hear that you have a good room on those drums. Perhaps the reverb can use a little EQ, especially on the snare to better cut through in the mix? Or some bus compression? Have you played with predelays on reverbs or added very, very quiet delays to other instruments to build a kind of depth layering? I am not trained enough to say anything really specific.

My point still remains, it is a great song and it is fun to listen to!

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by finotti »

jeanette_c wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:37 pm

I just listened again and either my ears are not as good or something. There is a slightly odd impression. It has to do with the cymbals. Some of it might be MP3 artefacts. The rides around 18-19 seconds appear very dry, compared to the rest. The crashes before that, as I said, appear to have some kind of artefact.
All in all, the drums are very up front, I don't just mean the volume, but the room they occupy, the spatial depth. I can hear that you have a good room on those drums. Perhaps the reverb can use a little EQ, especially on the snare to better cut through in the mix? Or some bus compression? Have you played with predelays on reverbs or added very, very quiet delays to other instruments to build a kind of depth layering? I am not trained enough to say anything really specific.

Thank you so much for your input! I really don't have great ears and struggle quite a bit with mixing, so I really appreciate constructive comments.

I will have to listen to it more carefully... I must say I did not check the MP3s. (Which I really should have...) I mostly listen to my recordings in FLAC and then export it.

I will try to go back and listen again with your comments in mind, and hopefully try another mix (if I can hear it!).

jeanette_c wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:37 pm

My point still remains, it is a great song and it is fun to listen to!

Thanks! That makes me very happy. :-)

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by modusjonens »

This one gives me some serious Vince DiCola vibes. Your guitar tone is excellent and the solo has a huge emotional impact. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by Basslint »

Love this! Queensryche vibes, do you happen to like them? :D

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by Michael Willis »

Hi Luis! Great work as usual. I know you are always uncertain about your mixing, but I think it has really improved over the years. I really like your drum programming, you could have fooled me if you hadn't said it was Drum Gizmo. Your over-the-top guitar solo at the end had me grinning from ear to ear, just like many of the solos in your other music.

From the explanation on your site:

LinuxSampler’s Maestro Concert Grand Piano v2 would probably have worked just as well. But it is a bit of pain to use Linux Sampler, so I went with it.

The Maestro Concert Grand samples have been converted to SFZ format, and sfizz is really easy to use. You should try the combo and see if you like it:

Maestro Concert Grand SFZ
sfizz

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by Rainmak3r »

Michael Willis wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:38 pm

The Maestro Concert Grand samples have been converted to SFZ format, and sfizz is really easy to use. You should try the combo and see if you like it:

Maestro Concert Grand SFZ
sfizz

That's interesting, how does it compare to Salamander, which is what I've been using so far?

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by Michael Willis »

Rainmak3r wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:40 pm

That's interesting, how does it compare to Salamander, which is what I've been using so far?

I actually use both depending on which one sounds better for a given piece of music. It's been quite a while since I've auditioned them side by side, but if I remember correctly the Salamander samples sound very close-mic, so there are sounds from the damper pedal mechanism, and the lows give more rumble from the sound board. In my opinion the Maestro Concert Grand has a more crisp sound, but the samples are normalized much quieter than the Salamander, so I tend to use Airwindows PurestGain plugin to amplify it around 8-12 dB depending on what else is going on with other tracks.

P.S. After writing the above, I went and read the documentation on both. The Salamander samples were recorded with the mics 12cm from the strings, which confirms my comment about a very close-mic sound. There are no details about the mic distance used for the Maestro Concert Grand, but from the sound I would guess within a couple meters of the strings, but nowhere near as close as 12cm.

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Re: "Old New" (v2.0)

Post by psyocean »

Very cool track, alive guitar so powerful, virtuosity and beauty. Congratulations, you create lucky amazing composition!

Guitar and synth tales... https://www.youtube.com/user/Psyocean/
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