Nice article on Flatpak, Snap, AppImage, Docker and Steam

[Linuxmusician01]

Recently there's some discussion here in unrelated topics on the future of distributing or developping software for Linux in such a way that it's compatible with more than one distro or distro version. I've no experience with that. Nowadays I tend to stay away from compiling from source or using repo's other than the ones that come with my distro out of the box.

However, every now and then one unfortunately needs the latest version of a certain application. To not be forced to upgrade your distro to a newer version there are a few "solutions". They provide a "package" of needed libraries and the application/binary itself. There's:

• Flatpak
• Snap
• AppImage
• Docker
• Steam

Like many kow: they include or download libraries so the app can be run in a sandbox. If you use a few of these "solutions" to not upgrade distro then your hard drive might become full because not all libraries are shared between packs (even though they promise to do so). And they might eat more RAM than you'd like.

It's explained in this nice article.

I think that these "packs" might be useful a last resort only. For example: I might want try the all new and improved version of Evolution Mail/Groupware suite that actually support Google's latest way to irate computer users all over the wold: their new inaccessible API for your contacts.

Other than agreeing upon a "default" OS like Debian Stable or something to develop for (as has been sort of advocated here) what do you think is the least bad "solution", if any?

[Largos]

I have used Snap, Flatpak, and AppImage.
Snap:

Didn't like this. Each program I installed made a "loop device" drive. In the end, I had a load of these drives cluttering up the file manager. With the latest Ubuntu, Firefox came pre-installed in Snap format, it's initial start up is stupidly snow at the moment. It was also a faff getting rid of it to use the firefox apt repo instead and it was set to impose itself over apt somewhat. I ended up removing snap and telling apt to never install it.

Flatpak:

Used this far more than snap. Found it a lot better. It's quite simple to use, install and remove stuff. Also cleans up unused shared libraries easy enough. I didn't notice any problems with performance with anything I used. It doesn't work with JACK though, so it's pretty much useless for me for audio stuff.

AppImage:

Easy to use, just download a file, set to be executable if necessary and open. You can get updaters but there's not really anything much good. Especially when compared to everything else. It's good to get a specific app off a specific dev sometime but the lack of any integration is in general a downside.

I don't really use any of them now, AppImage for some small programs and a game. Flatpak and Snap are not installed. None of them are as good as using the distro package management. AppImage is ok for "now and then" but if you want to always be up to date with a lot of apps, then better to be on a rolling distro *shrugs*

[folderol]

I've not tried any of them - on principle. To paraphrase it's quite un-linux

[Impostor]

I'm using a couple of appimages. An appimage approaches my ideal of having everything in one place. (I like to use firejail for the same reason: it creates order in my process list.)

I hated it with Windows how user files pertaining to a single program (especially games) were distributed over a variety of user folders, and how every game did it differently from the rest.

Imagine the horror when I switched to Linux! Now even the programs themselves were intractably distributed throughout various root folders, in addition to the user's files in the /home folder jungle.

I've learned to just ignore my root partition for the most part, apart from making backups now and then. Sadly I cannot do the same with my /home folder! What a clutterfuck. That's why I like Steam: all games install inside the /.steam folder, user files for Proton games go there too, and with PRESSURE_VESSEL_SHARE_HOME=0 *most* native Steam games put all their user files inside ~/.var/app/.... instead of in a variety of places in /home.

I dislike the idea behind Snap. One of the reasons for ditching Windows was progressive lack of user control over updates with Windows 8. Ever since they started their aggressive and sneaky 'upgrade to Windows 10' tactics back in 2014(?) I've distrusted each and every monthly Windows update. I love the way updates are offered in Linux Mint. Snap apparently takes that transparency away again.

[Linuxmusician01]

I've not tried any of them - on principle. To paraphrase it's quite un-linux

Then you're not using Ubuntu. Like @Largos said: Ubuntu installs some stuff per default as a snap. Which means that I, unknowingly, am a Snap user. Brrrr!

I can not determine how much longer it takes to start up one of these "things" (Flatpak, Snap, etc.) and I can not determine how much extra RAM they eat. But I do not want to use any of 'm because it makes system management more difficult. I mean: all those loop back devices when you simply issue a "df" command. And I need a separate utility from Synaptic to (un)install Snap applications (link). What were they thinking?????

I'm not gonna risk removing the Gnome Snap. I'm afraid it'll break my LXDE desktop environment or my Linux system.

[sunrat]

Snap and Flatpak are a travesty. It's like some MS devs infiltrated with the express purpose of trying to turn Linux into crap.

[folderol]

@ Linuxmusician01
You're right I'm not - I tried it when it first came out and didn't much like it then. As far as I'm concerned it went progressively downhill. These days I think it is firmly aimed at disenchanted Windows users, not people who want to do real work.

I install a minimal devuan with Openbox and Rox-Filer. I then run a script that installs all the other bits and bobs I like, and nothing else. The last time I had to do that was earlier this year triggered by a corrupt SSD (first time I'd seen that). Thanks to my backup systems I didn't lose any personal data.

[alex stone]

Snap and Flatpak are a travesty. It's like some MS devs infiltrated with the express purpose of trying to turn Linux into crap.

Yep, this.

I can see merit in using appimages, but snap and flatpack? No.

[Michael Willis]

Thanks to my backup systems I didn't lose any personal data.

Thanks for the reminder that I should have a better backup solution.

[j_e_f_f_g]

Thanks to my backup systems...

Thanks for the reminder that I should have a better backup solution.

I think you should feel offended, folderol. Michael just implied that you have a bad backup system.

[folderol]

Thanks to my backup systems...

Thanks for the reminder that I should have a better backup solution.

I think you should feel offended, folderol. Michael just implied that you have a bad backup system.

As a native English speaker of considerable experience (see my sig), I take a positive view of the ambiguity and regard it as a compliment

[merlyn]

Snap, Flatpack, Appimage, Docker and Steam don't exist in my universe. Seems like Ubuntu want to close that pesky ease-of-use gap and made such a mess of it it's difficult to believe.

But ... everyone's Linux system is different, so if it works for you, use it.

I think the tendency is that after a few years of using Linux, users will end up on a rolling release. Rolling releases are not aimed at beginners, so stable, LTS distros have their place, and self-contained binaries will continue to be a solution to the issue of having up to date software on a stable distro.

[nils]

All converges to Archlinux with just system packages.

[j_e_f_f_g]

I take a positive view

Well, you're no fun at all.

Is this merlin's chain here? Of course I'm gonna do it. After all, I'm a Yankee.

[j_e_f_f_g]

All converges to Archlinux with just system packages.

Which nils will then promptly fork.