Patchance (JACK Patchbay) first pre-release

[houston4444]

If I may ask: What is the issue with pyalsa being too old ?
Why cant patchance not work with an older pyalsa version ?
Maybe this requirement of patchance is removable ?

TBH, I don't remember why, but I am pretty sure there is something needed. If you remove (or comment) this code line, you could try, but I am really not optimist.

I speak under correction but I can remember that patchage do not care about minor pyalsa version differences.

Patchage is a C++ program, it does not need this python bindings, normal !

[retnev]

TBH, I don't remember why, but I am pretty sure there is something needed. If you remove (or comment) this code line, you could try, but I am really not optimist.

Patchage is a C++ program, it does not need this python bindings, normal !

I shure will try that thanks !!

Patchage doesnt depend on Python bindings ? Right there it points to the source of the problem - Python.

[retnev]

@houston4444
Thank you for your honest and to the point answer. That helped to sort out patchage.
When you said it was C++ developed, I immediately knew what to do and solved the problem.
Patchage now works !!
Patchance however wont workfor a lot of users, with the python dependencies.
The problem is sure with patchance being dependent on Python.

What follows is a screenshot with both patchage and patchance on the same server.
Clearly Patchage shows all the midi while patchance refuses.
Patchage needs a newer version of Jack, so wont display the jack routes currently, but is an easy fix and will display the midi so that is ok. I will update Jack later. Easy fix.

Clearly there is nothing wrong with my system and the buck stops with patchance, as patchance does not display midi, while patchage does as shown by the attached image.

From the previous comment that patchance depends on python bindings, clearly shows who the culprit is ....brace for it .... one of the usual suspects from the threesome that destroys linux.

This time it is Python the snake again.
Python is a language that should stick to be used to teach scripting style software development, but should not make it's way out of university.
The same as Pascal used to be used to teach at European Universities long ago.
At least Pascal was a serious strong-typed language that was very useful in mission critical applications and a decent language with excellent compiler and very descriptive debug,
Python on the other hand is a house-that-jack-built with chaotic installers, almost non-existent error reporting and severely divergent and buggy user deployment. It is slow-as-molasses cross-your-fingers-software. Dont rely on it if you are serious about development.

Sorry, but my rants are valid as this proves yet again to be Python. Hours and hours I spent just to please the decrepit snake...

Patchance is quality software, and if the snake did not byte again, I would prefer it by far above patchage, but you should maybe look if you can't at least drop the darn snake. The snake is a garbage sandbox language to be used for training students only. It excels in that, like colorful blocks and alphabet-soup excels for the development of a baby.

Again I have nothing against patchance. You write great software and is a dead honest person. Just your choice of dependencies ...

[houston4444]

implacable logic ! Patchance refuses to show ALSA ports when Patchage works, Patchance uses Python, and Patchage doesn't, so, the problem is python.

Mmmmh, no.

Of course, Python is not perfect, it has its own problems, it is slow of course, and some minor versions changes result (rarely) in crashes in newer versions. Note that to avoid this, we can use a program in a python environment forcing the use of a specific python version, I don't work this way in order to used the default Qt version on the system, this way Qt memory usage is shared (oh my god, so this is the Qt fault !!!).
But, for myself, I never met any language bug, they surely exists, but the language is so much used that they are very rare.

More probably, there is something wrong in Patchance or in the pyalsa lib (which is not used so much), in relation with something in your config/system unknown but specific.

Patchance however wont workfor a lot of users, with the python dependencies.

Not sure at all, you are the first one. Of course Patchance doesn't have many users, but RaySession have some ones, the ALSA MIDI works near exactly the same way. If someone else reports the problem (with a terminal log), I may investigate, for the moment, I have not enough elements.

When you said it was C++ developed, I immediately knew what to do and solved the problem.
Patchage now works !!

Almost audio programs are C++ developed (and this is well as this), strange that you was thinking it was python, but, nice if it works.

[retnev]

implacable logic ! Patchance refuses to show ALSA ports when Patchage works, Patchance uses Python, and Patchage doesn't, so, the problem is python.

Mmmmh, no.

Assuming there is NO problem with patchance, the only possible culprit is Python, which it almost always is.
So I dont know how you get around Python not the culprit. Otherwise Patchance has a bug, which is not what it looks like to me.

Of all the bugs and trouble I found the last 5 years over almost ten concurrent servers, is by large SystemD, but most of the remaining trouble is Python. The culprit was almost never anything else. Apparently I just have to unsee all this.

But it is ok. We can agree to differ.

[Axel-Erfurt]

There must be a reason why it isn't working for you. But how could you find out if it works for everyone else?

[retnev]

There must be a reason why it isn't working for you. But how could you find out if it works for everyone else?

Because if I have a problem managing several servers, the problem is either systemD or Python, followed to a lesser extent by QT. This is based on a decade of issues. I cannot unsee it, and it is not only happening on a "system". This happens over several distros on several servers.
Issues really started getting less when I moved to MX which does not run systemD by default but shims the config files and suddenly applications work better system way more reliable. Moving back to Devuan completely cleared up all the mysterious systemD related issues.
But the snake .... the darn thing persists over all operating systems and still gives me trouble whatever I use. Even on vanilla installs.
I can start with any problem I encounter, and I would never guess that it is the threesome causing it. In the end it almost always is.
Cannot "unsee" it sorry.

Python has crappy implementation. No user should have to put up with the divergent installation methods and rampant bad error reporting and lacky dependency checks. It is a university project and should stay there. It is worth gold there.
Trusty .configure, make, make install, with good dependency checks as example, has been degraded to pip pop plop rhubab flubber and more with several flavors and lacking dependency checks and reporting. Its the kind of nonsense that is good for students but not for the public and does not belong in industry.

Most users just give up and so the statistics remain low. All you encounter is that software depending on this buggy crap dont report a lot of users. They generally just shut up and move on. You would be surprised how few people report issues. I do, as I want to find what the cause of the problem is and most of the time, I am compelled to.

[martibs]

Seriously man, will you quit whining? If you don't like apps built on Python, you are free to not use them. And spare us of your rants against any other unrelated softwares you have a preferance against.

Here, I followed the installation instructions and built the app on MX 23.1. It just works.

2023-12-15_02-39-2.jpg (65.64 KiB) Viewed 5596 times

[retnev]

Good it works for you. Bravo. I dont use Mx23. My upgrade cycle is 3 years as the systems are huge and you cannot just willy nilly upgrade.
It is on MX21 and still will be for 1.5 years.
Maybe the snake crawled out of its own **** in MX23.
Who knows. the entire thing is in flux.
Reminds me of wine in it's early days before playonlinux.
You had fun trying/hunting dll's till it works.
Python is similar, for no good reason, when something goes wrong - irresposible.

Nothing wrong with Patchance.
It is the snake that stands in my way, and usually does.

Lets leave it there.

[tramp]

Python could be poison, I've done a lot of tools I use in python, some of them wouldn't run any more on my system, or if I port them to new versions they give wrong results. That's because python changed a lot in the underlying maths (nympy, scipy, . . ). Strange, how could maths changed?, but that how it is. So to be able to use my old tools I've set up a virtual env for them were I run them from. That makes python absolutely stable.

@houston4444 Maybe you've some fun by setup a virtual env script for your app

[GMaq]

It is on MX21 and still will be for 1.5 years.

I admittedly haven't read every post but Patchance is in the MX-21 Repos and it comes pre-installed and working in AV Linux (also currently based on MX-21) so I've probably missed a key ingredient here but Patchance should be install and go on an MX-21 system..

[retnev]

double post -removed

[retnev]

I admittedly haven't read every post but Patchance is in the MX-21 Repos and it comes pre-installed and working in AV Linux (also currently based on MX-21) so I've probably missed a key ingredient here but Patchance should be install and go on an MX-21 system..

Boots up and works with Jack yes, but not with midi on my vanilla MX21. Exactly this fact is the topic of the thread. Problem turns out to be Python.
AV Linux is an audio centric distro based on MX but there are a LOT of customizations, so it is not MX. Maybe they found a way to put a diaper on the snake for this particular issue. That is why it is it's own distro right ?
Problem is, if you run a large system with lots of applications, lots of extra Python crap is installed with each new python-reliant application that sometimes just makes perfectly working applications fail. So in a real world scenario it just becomes loopey.
Joe Mousepusher with his minimal applications will likely not encounter big problems.

[Tapper]

As I understand, the only man that has problems with compiling and running Patchance is the man that hates "Python crap". Am I surprised? No.

Can't add my picture with running Patchance with Alsa Midi devices, but I can assure you, it is running fine, both, installed from AUR repository and compilled by hand. But I still prefer RaySession.

[retnev]

As I understand, the only man that has problems with compiling and running Patchance is the man that hates "Python crap". Am I surprised? No.

Wrong..
I have no problem compiling and running Patchance.
I compiled it and it runs.
The problem is with Pyalsa which denies Patchance from displaying and routing Midi.
Try and READ the post history.