LinuxMusicians

tavasti wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:04 pm Devuan is based on Debian Bullseye, and debian wiki says:

In Debian 11, PipeWire 0.3.19 is available, and can be experimentally used as a substitute for the ALSA userspace library, PulseAudio, and JACK. This is a documented but unsupported use-case.

Maybe the right solution is to get more recent pipewire, and use it: https://pipewire-debian.github.io/pipewire-debian

tavasti wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:12 pm

sunrat wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:33 am AV Linux - MX Edition fills all your requirements. No snap, SysV as default although systemd is available.

I feel it is too small project. I don't want to do re-install often, and want to have system suported with regular security updates.

What is the basis for these feelings you have about AVLinux and systemd? AV Linux MX is based on MX Linux, which is based on Debian stable. You get security updates from Debian. With SysVInit over systemd, you may construct a smaller attack surface in theory, but in practice, if you install one of the major SysVInit-based distros, the attack surface is basically the same.
You seem to be making things unnecessarily difficult for yourself.

bluzee wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:33 pm If memory serves pipewire was installed but not used in Bullseye. No need to disable it.

Can confirm. I use Bullseye and PW is installed but uses PA/ALSA by default. I doubt Devuan would enable it. Run pw-top to confirm.
Occasional applications won't work without systemd. IIRC @GMaq uses it himself on AVL-MXE even though MX is SysV default.

sunrat wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:52 pm

bluzee wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:33 pm If memory serves pipewire was installed but not used in Bullseye. No need to disable it.

Can confirm. I use Bullseye and PW is installed but uses PA/ALSA by default. I doubt Devuan would enable it. Run pw-top to confirm.
Occasional applications won't work without systemd. IIRC @GMaq uses it himself on AVL-MXE even though MX is SysV default.

Yes but I only use systemd for my VPN because it doesn't have a sysvinit alternative script, other than that I'm completely ambivalent about systemd..

@tavasti

You're not wrong that AVL is a small project in some ways but the MX mothership is not small at all and as mentioned is Package compliant with Debian stable.. Also as far as needing to reinstall that is usually only when moving from one Debian base Distribution to another (ie from Buster to Bullseye etc), sure there are minor cosmetic changes and bugfixes to the AVL-specific utilities with ISO updates but the core applications come through the MX Repositories with even newer stuff coming with the MX Test Repos. With the facilities afforded by MX AVL is much less of a lone-wolf type of project than it previously was and every release is becoming more integrated with less heavily customized Packaging.

Use what you like and like what you use, I'm just trying to clarify things a bit. Best of luck in your search!

GMaq wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:28 pm

sunrat wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:52 pm...
Occasional applications won't work without systemd. IIRC @GMaq uses it himself on AVL-MXE even though MX is SysV default.

Yes but I only use systemd for my VPN because it doesn't have a sysvinit alternative script, ...

Case closed, your honour.
NordVPN? I recall seeing a post on MX forum where it was determined systemd was required. Sure there were other applications too.

And certainly MX is a solid, reliable, well-maintained distro these days. I used it successfully for 18 months or so but by default it has too much stuff I don't use so went back to Debian built on a minimal netinstall.

GMaq wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:36 pm You're not wrong that AVL is a small project in some ways but the MX mothership is not small at all and as mentioned is Package compliant with Debian stable.. Also as far as needing to reinstall that is usually only when moving from one Debian base Distribution to another (ie from Buster to Bullseye etc), sure there are minor cosmetic changes and bugfixes to the AVL-specific utilities with ISO updates but the core applications come through the MX Repositories with even newer stuff coming with the MX Test Repos. With the facilities afforded by MX AVL is much less of a lone-wolf type of project than it previously was and every release is becoming more integrated with less heavily customized Packaging.

Use what you like and like what you use, I'm just trying to clarify things a bit. Best of luck in your search!

Thanks for clarifying things! Yeah, my decision making, I had to make some decisions now, and AVL indeed looked very small project. And small project has its risks, one man show can end in a minute when maintainer gets run over by bus while going to grocery store or what ever.

That is why I wanted to have some project with 'wider shoulders'.

tavasti wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:54 am one man show can end in a minute when maintainer gets run over by bus while going to grocery store or what ever.

Are you and @j_e_f_f_g plotting something I should know about...?

GMaq wrote: you and @j_e_f_f_g plotting something

Give me some credit, man. If I wanted you dead, I'd do it in a much more creative and devious manner than running you over with a bus. (What is it with you canadians and big trucks? Tell me that isn't as much about phallic compensation as americans with guns.) Here's how I'd do it...

I'd convince some linux audio developer who is a lot more influentual and well-liked than me (even Pottering beat me out) to create and promote a new audio server that replaces and emulates JACK, PA, and Pipewire (as well as introducing a new, incompatible api). Then I'd just sit back and watch you slowly die from the stress of shoehorning that into AV Linux.

But relax. Even I'm not that sadistic.

P.s. Rui, did you receive my secret decoder ring that rearranges all the letters in my posts to reveal the hidden messages?

GMaq wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:58 pm

tavasti wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:54 am one man show can end in a minute when maintainer gets run over by bus while going to grocery store or what ever.

Are you and @j_e_f_f_g plotting something I should know about...?

At least I don't know anything, I am just plain realist: anything can happen to anybody of us any day. And what happens can be something bad, or something good. Developer can find love of lifetime, and drop project. And for small project that is problem.

and now let's expand the exercise, instead of a single road you now pictre the same trolley with j_e_f_f_g in it, you're crossing a road and Pottering is roped on the other line.
That one's certainly an easy one, at least for me and probably zillion nonnoob users, but the next expansions are harder (left as an exercise for the student).

Loki Harfagr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:23 pm and now let's expand the exercise, instead of a single road you now pictre the same trolley with j_e_f_f_g in it, you're crossing a road and Pottering is roped on the other line.
That one's certainly an easy one, at least for me and probably zillion nonnoob users, but the next expansions are harder (left as an exercise for the student).

@tavasti

Yes, I understand that but I will mention a couple of things:

AV Linux has been around since 2008 or so, with the exception of Ubuntu Studio (which has almost closed it's doors a couple of times) AVL is the longest running Linux Multimedia Content Creation spin out there, I've seen a lot of projects big and small come and go even multi-team projects are not immune to folding.. AV Linux as an independent specialized project is been in the Distrowatch top 100 pretty much since it was submitted (and I didn't submit it). Since joining with MX Linux AVL is often in the top 50 and that is between releases. This can mean as much or as little as you want and I only mention to point out AV Linux IS well established in the greater world of Linuxdom and not just some bedroom project that a handful of people on this forum know about..

Secondly... forget about AV Linux entirely and consider MX Linux which is and has been the most popular Distribution on Distrowatch for years and is fully compliant with Debian, in fact it takes Debian and improves upon it in multiple ways and yet remains fully compliant so you essentially have the convenience features and phenomenal toolset of MX riding the widest shoulders out there as far as popularity... Debian, the mother of Ubuntu, Mint, PopOS and on and on.. MX has a team and history dating back to the early 2000's and these people are rabidly dedicated to their project. MX comes in KDE, XFCE4 and Fluxbox variants that are fully supported and it provides you the tools to customize and make your own spin of whatever you want. Recently, partially because of the influence of AV Linux but mostly due to the great Packaging team's willingness to package what the User's request MX aside from AVL has an ever-growing list of fairly current multimedia Packages and also packages the Liquorix kernel within it's own Repos so although pure MX is not as finely tuned and at the current time lacks some of the handy AV Linux utilities and system tweaks it could easily be used as a base and be made pretty much equivalent to Ubuntu Studio on it's own. You don't want systemd? You don't want Wayland? MX boots to sysvinit by default and on top of that offers you the opportunity to boot systemd if you require it..

AV Linux is too 'small' and not your thing..? cool but you're crazy to not look at MX Linux as one of your choices..

tavasti wrote: Developer can find love of lifetime

The only thing a developer loves is Mountain Dew soda. But mine is diet. I'm too cute to be jabba the hutt.
Me being attacked at a gig by a irate patron who wanted to strangle me for playing my original song "You've got mass".

A few of the lyrics:

Darling take a seat. Get off of your sore feet.
To say your figure's slightly full is somewhat incomplete.
You have to admit. You're a grand pudge-pit.
Don't need no pork for supper because baby you are it.

The rolls around your stomach shake with ev'ry step you take.
And when you sit on wicker chairs, they're always sure to break.

Don't mean to be crass, but move your big fat ass.
No one can see behind you because honey you've got mass.

GMaq wrote: ... I didn't submit it.

Just admit it. You want to submit. Only a masochist would maintain a linux audio distro.

AV Linux is too 'small' and not your thing..? cool but you're crazy

Did I just read that tavasti is crazy about big butts?? I may have skimmed that a little too fast, but I'm going with it because it's the best gossip I heard this month. Even more scandalous than what I recently heard about raboof. And that guy is an #@!$% freak!