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I hope you all remember the true significance of december 25. It marks the birth of a deity born of a virgin mother, who had twelve disciples, walked on water, delivered a 'sermon on the mount', performed miracles, was executed beside two thieves, then rose from the dead and ascended into heaven.

Of course, I'm referring to the ancient egyptian god Horus, upon whom nearly the entire story of Jesus Christ was based. Then when Constantine changed the Roman Empire to christianity, they killed all the pagans and burned all evidence (that wasn't hidden) to cover up the true origins of christianity.

And they've been lying to us ever since.

Hm! I am pretty sure that there is no scholarly consensus on that, but there are other reasons for which I, a Catholic, personally wouldn't find your claim troubling even if it were true.

First, all myths reflect a (partial) truth, which is the one truth (and there can't be more than one truth, otherwise it would not be the truth). So, if some earlier myths in some ways reflected what Jesus later did, it would be because the Incarnation happened within time and space but is also an absolute Truth outside time and space. It's like our very universe is shaped by that Truth. As such, I would be surprised if myths reflected anything other than a part of the Truth, because people would outright reject them!

As a side not, some myths, natural events and feats were in some ways used to better communicate the Truth using a language which common people could understand. This strategy was used successfully by missionaries in all eras - to cite a couple of examples, the use of the Ankh by early Christians.

These two paragraphs combined might explain some creation myths and other stuff movies like Zeitgeist like to talk about. I am an apologetics noob but I assure you that some very smart Christians do know about this stuff! There are smart people in general, like Edward Feser. We worry more about other stuff, like being real ourselves

For me it's happy Christmas, then

Basslint wrote:no scholarly consensus on that

There's never been any consensus upon divine entities, and never will be. But that doesn't make any of them any less a plagiarism of what came before them. It's the same ancient fairy tales, repackaged and resold, everytime people feel the need to create a new god because their current guy just ain't getting it done when it comes to answering prayers, rewarding the faithful, fighting evil, delivering salvation, etc. In another few hundred years JC will be off to the tar pits, to join the likes of Anubis, Zeus, Jupiter, and all the other mystical spirits who lost their mojo. I just hope the next one won't be so ridiculous, although that's unlikely given that the 2 most recent creations are a space dictator who drops nuclear bombs on people trapped in volcanos, and another guy who lives on a planet of constant orgies.

I, a Catholic, wouldn't find your claim troubling

You're no fun.

even if it were true.

Well, I'm talking about a myth. Horus ain't real either. But you really made it hard to deny when you said:

"all myths reflect a (partial) truth"

... because now you've just implied that there's some truth to the existence of Horus.

And anyway, that doesn't stand because some myths directly contradict other myths. For example, the american native Iroquois tribe believe we all live on the shell of a giant tortoise, which while not a globe, is definitely round. On the other hand, the christian disciples believe we live on a flat plane created by god -- a holy pizza, as it were.

can't be more than one truth

I'm guessing you're not a fan of the multiverse, nor quantum physics.

the Incarnation happened within time and space but is also an absolute Truth outside time and space.

In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, baby.

the use of the Ankh by early Christians.

Yes, the catholics love their symbolic artifacts, especially if made out of gold.

like being real ourselves

Hooray for real people. Boo for imaginary gods.

Merry Xmas to all.

j_e_f_f_g wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:31 am There's never been any consensus upon divine entities, and never will be. But that doesn't make any of them any less a plagiarism of what came before them. It's the same ancient fairy tales, repackaged and resold, everytime people feel the need to create a new god because their current guy just ain't getting it done when it comes to answering prayers, rewarding the faithful, fighting evil, delivering salvation, etc. In another few hundred years JC will be off to the tar pits, to join the likes of Anubis, Zeus, Jupiter, and all the other mystical spirits who lost their mojo. I just hope the next one won't be so ridiculous, although that's unlikely given that the 2 most recent creations are a space dictator who drops nuclear bombs on people trapped in volcanos, and another guy who lives on a planet of constant orgies.

But there's scholarly consensus on historical sources and what people actually believed!

You're no fun.

Catholics are lots of fun! Just look at St. Francis and St. Philip Neri people who were raised Catholic include Bill Murray, Danny DeVito, Steve Carrell and John Candy. How bout that?

... because now you've just implied that there's some truth to the existence of Horus.

I don't think I implied that, actually! I was referring to the myth (invented by people) and not the "deity". I don't underestimate the imagination of people, that's all

And anyway, that doesn't stand because some myths directly contradict other myths. For example, the american native Iroquois tribe believe we all live on the shell of a giant tortoise, which while not a globe, is definitely round. On the other hand, the christian disciples believe we live on a flat plane created by god -- a holy pizza, as it were.

The fact that myths contradicts one another shows that they indeed are not the Truth, and are just myths! And we Catholics don't believe in a flat earth and never did. Those are falsehoods which can be easily be disproved, if you really want it.

While Internet gives people some argument to leave Christianity, it also gives them a way to study if what is commonly said about it is actually true. There is a lot under the surface.

I personally read a lot of stuff from New Atheists and others in my life. I invite everyone who's not Catholic to read about what Catholics actually believe. We are not afraid of science, Copernicus, Lemeitre and others were actually Catholic priests! Nor do we believe in most things people accuse us of believing (like "worshipping" saints, the flat earth and denying evolution).

Yes, the catholics love their symbolic artifacts, especially if made out of gold.

We use gold because we believe that it gives glory to God. St. Francis, who lived as a beggar, insisted that churches were majestic AFAIK. Still, I think yours is a valid concern, which merits further discussion in this era!

Or perhaps most of it has been made up in an effort to discredit the Bible story:
https://coldcasechristianity.com/writin ... orus-myth/