[Solved]Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

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othmay
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[Solved]Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by othmay »

Hi Everyone,

I am trying to use my Roland VS-100 as an external sound card however I am having so much trouble. So let's start with the story hoping someone feels it.
So I have been using my external sound card for quite sometime, I used to work on DAWs (windows and linux). And so I know the sound card works since using it on windows right now, but used it on studio64, studio 13.37 (old music production distro, was the bomb for me), and more importantly it works right now on AV Linux out of the box.

Anyway I know the sound card worked on linux.

The tricky part, at least for the past months for me is to make it work under linux mint, since I work under linux mint I would like to enjoy my sound the proper way but I can't get my interface to recognize by alsa in the first place. At least from what I understand.
Here is my config and a few of the information I gathered, I am not really a newbie on linux but sounds seems so messed up in my head right now I can't figure it properly on linux.

distro: Linux Mint 20.2
desktop: Cinnamon
kernel: 5.13 (5.4 in case)
audio interface : Cakewalk V-studio 100 -> https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ca ... studio-100
I don't know if you need more about my specs.

Pulseaudio settings : does not even mention the interface
lsusb gives me "Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0582:00eb Roland Corp. VS-100", at least.

alsamixer:Image
alsamixergui->proc.info:Image

I am willing to learn and make it happen so if someone feels like it, I will be glad to give more information and spend time trying things, moreover I can give you information from live AVLinux, still on my ventoy key. So I think everything is here to solve the issue I just don't understand enough to make it happen.

Thank you for reading,
Othmay.
Last edited by othmay on Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Linuxmusician01
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

It looks like Alsa only recognizes your Roland VS-100 as a Midi device, not audio. Therefore it won't show up in Pulseaudio.

Maybe the kernel module (read: Linux driver) for your Roland changed and nowadays it isn't supported anymore. I hope somebody with more Linux audio hardware knowledge will also reply...
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by othmay »

Linuxmusician01 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:39 am It looks like Alsa only recognizes your Roland VS-100 as a Midi device, not audio. Therefore it won't show up in Pulseaudio.

Maybe the kernel module (read: Linux driver) for your Roland changed and nowadays it isn't supported anymore. I hope somebody with more Linux audio hardware knowledge will also reply...
I hope so but in the mean time, thank you to you my friend, I am going to look in this direction kernel modules. Sorry I am still a bit confused about linux but as a sound engineer and dev I should find more info with a direction.
Cheers.

Edit : Following what you said I found this https://michaelminn.com/linux/mmusbaudio/ and wanted to give it a try, so when I have the time and while the post get views I will be trying this MMUSBAUDIO kernel module, which sounds like something that would make my interface gets its life back.
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

othmay wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:04 am [...]
Edit : Following what you said I found this https://michaelminn.com/linux/mmusbaudio/
Last update of that kernel module is from 2012. Hope it works for you. Be careful though! I'd try to insert this module into the kernel on a "test computer".

Do you know what a kernel module is? On windows we'd call that a driver. Some are external (read: somewhere on your hard drive) can be "inserted" into the running kernal (no need to reboot). Almost all drivers for hardware, however, are already in the Linux kernel. Been aged sine I inserted or removed kernal modules. Dunno how it worked...

Good luck with puzzeling. :)
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

Maybe this'll help, but it's not for the faint of heart:

http://majiksramblings.blogspot.com/201 ... linux.html

Your audio interface requires a Windows utility to set it up. It appears to run in Wine though.
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by othmay »

Linuxmusician01 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:01 pm Maybe this'll help, but it's not for the faint of heart:

http://majiksramblings.blogspot.com/201 ... linux.html

Your audio interface requires a Windows utility to set it up. It appears to run in Wine though.
From what I understand wine is used for controlling the interface, which i do not require nor can do since its hardware only. In any case I thank you for this page that I found but forgot.
Because this part :
ALSA support for Roland

Earlier last year (2013) a couple of the main ALSA developers recognised that there were an increasing number of quirks being added for some vendors equipment (including BOSS/Roland) and that these quirks were all very similar in nature. They then developed changes to snd-usb-audio which provided generic support for Roland devices so that future per-device quirks shouldn't be needed. These changes are now in the newer kernels and should allow full support for most current Roland and Boss audio cards.

For this support you will need a v3.10 or later kernel. Part of my motivation for purchasing the VS-20 was to test this.

To do this I had to compile my own kernel. I was using an older version of Linux Mint (v13) but even the newer versions aren't using the latest kernels yet. I downloaded and compiled the latest stable kernel release, 3.12.7, installed it, and rebooted. After some shenanigans with my Nvidia drivers, I got it working and checked for the sound card. It was there and worked perfectly.
kind of confirm my post above about recompiling a kernel with audio drivers.
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

othmay wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:22 pm
ALSA support for Roland

Earlier last year (2013) a couple of the main ALSA developers recognised that there were an increasing number of quirks being added for some vendors equipment (including BOSS/Roland) and that these quirks were all very similar in nature. They then developed changes to snd-usb-audio which provided generic support for Roland devices so that future per-device quirks shouldn't be needed. These changes are now in the newer kernels and should allow full support for most current Roland and Boss audio cards.

For this support you will need a v3.10 or later kernel. Part of my motivation for purchasing the VS-20 was to test this.

To do this I had to compile my own kernel. I was using an older version of Linux Mint (v13) but even the newer versions aren't using the latest kernels yet. I downloaded and compiled the latest stable kernel release, 3.12.7, installed it, and rebooted. After some shenanigans with my Nvidia drivers, I got it working and checked for the sound card. It was there and worked perfectly.
kind of confirm my post above about recompiling a kernel with audio drivers.
The info you refer to is 8 years old. The person that you quoted "downloaded and compiled the latest stable kernel release, 3.12.7". The Linux kernel is now at version 5.8 (run "uname -a")! The improvements that this person is talking about are already in the kernel that you use, I'm convinced of it.

You may not have the exact same audio card as this person. The fact that you do not need the Windows software is an indication of this...

Are you sure you have to compile the whole kernel (which takes long and is difficult) and not just one kernel module? Where will you get the source code for the audio driver (kernel module) that 100% sure will work with your audio card? If you think that kernel 3.12 works, then it'd be more easy to download a very old Linux distro that uses this kernel and run that from USB stick once to test your audio card.

If I'm not mistaken then in the other forum you said (or they said) that you can not be sure that, in the other Linux distribution which you talked about, the audio card did work.

If I were you I'd do some more researching on the internet to determine if this card indeed works or has worked in Linux.
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by othmay »

othmay wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:48 pm Hi Everyone,

I am trying to use my Roland VS-100 as an external sound card however I am having so much trouble. So let's start with the story hoping someone feels it.
So I have been using my external sound card for quite sometime, I used to work on DAWs (windows and linux). And so I know the sound card works since using it on windows right now, but used it on studio64, studio 13.37 (old music production distro, was the bomb for me), and more importantly it works right now on AV Linux out of the box.

Anyway I know the sound card worked on linux.
...
First post, but thank you for investing yourself, it is really appreciated.
Indeed, I just posted the route I am looking at but not what instructions I am following. Let me add this link as well that says :

https://alsa.opensrc.org/Cakewalk_UA-1G
As I don't understand how to patch a kernel because I am more musician than a Unix programmer, I found another way to get the advanced mode to work. You can use the alternative driver from Michael Minn MMUSBAUDIO (http://michaelminn.com/linux/mmusbaudio/) which is dedicated to Roland and Edirol products. As I believed that the Cakewalk UA-1G was very close to the Edirol UA-1EX for the hardware, I guessed that modifying the source code a little bit could do the trick. It worked. So you have to modify the source to add support for the UA-1G. Nothing impossible, don't worry.

UPDATE : The driver from Michael Minn has been updated and integrated the following fix. You shouldn't have to modify anything now. Just compile the driver with "make" and install it with "make install".
If I could contact the person behing AVLinux, because as written in the first post my interface works out of the box even on live usb. So maybe, he knows exactly why I am facing my issue, at least I guess he would know where to look at.
In any case thank you all again, I am still working on it when I have the time.
Cheers.

edit : I booted into avlinux live again and copied the /proc/asound folder in case in contains useful info and when I look at my linux mint "AudioMIDI" folder (AudioMIDI is my sound card) and the one from AVlinux, I kind of understand why it works ojn AV and not on mint :

top Mint, bottom AV

Image

But weirdly alsamixer gives me the same view as my screen shot from linux mint in the first post so to me at least it seems like it is not alsa that takes care of my sound card (or does it ? idk), but it appears in pulseaudio volume control where in linux mint I have nothing. So I am getting even more lost but with more info so I will keep grinding :D.
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by glowrak guy »

You could try this guide to install Cinnamon on an avlinux. This would keep most of your
gui experience, but running over an audio subsystem that supports your interface.
Better to try new shoes, than new feet :wink:

https://techviewleo.com/install-cinnamo ... on-debian/
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by othmay »

glowrak guy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:19 pm You could try this guide to install Cinnamon on an avlinux. This would keep most of your
gui experience, but running over an audio subsystem that supports your interface.
Better to try new shoes, than new feet :wink:

https://techviewleo.com/install-cinnamo ... on-debian/
I actually prefer xfce but the thing is I have all my workflow done on linux mint and I am working for a client right now, so I won't be able to move distro for some time. Hence why I wanted to find a solution before simply moving to AVL MXE. I mean knowledge is always good.
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by glowrak guy »

You don't have to move distro, just add a distro on an external bootable drive.
You probably know some gamer or office geek who has a drive they would part with
fpr almost free, and a good usb case is only $30-$40. You might even serve your client
more efficiently as a side effect. Hope your deal goes well!
Cheers
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

othmay wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:29 pm
othmay wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:48 pm [...] it works right now on AV Linux out of the box.
If I could contact the person behing AVLinux, because as written in the first post my interface works out of the box even on live usb. So maybe, he knows exactly why I am facing my issue, at least I guess he would know where to look at.
Oops missed that. If you're 100% sure that you get sound out of the interface in AV Linux then indeed the maker of AV Linux is the person to go to. His name is Glen MacArthur and he is active on this forom: his nick name is @GMaq (link to profile on this forum, link interview). I'd send him a PM if I were you, maybe he'll reply in this topic since he is mentioned by @nick-name now.

He must have used a different kernel or a different version of Alsa (= Linux's audio part/audio driver), that is: a different snd_usb_audio module. A big mystery to me why AV Linux works and your average basic Linux kernal/Alsa version does not.

Indeed, I think that the kernel is not the probelm, in the (old) links you provided they say that the Alsa module snd_usb_audio is the probelm: it should recognize "every or any" USB audio device but it it doesn't recognize yours. Weird because in all of those old web pages they say that the problem is solved in newer Alsa versions...

All of a sudden I'm confused about snd_usb_audio: is it a kernel module or an Alsa module? I think it's a kernel module provided by Alsa.

Good luck in problem solving! :)
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by GMaq »

Hi,

I can't say that I have made any explicit effort to support this particular device in AV Linux but an important piece of the hardware puzzle is 'firmware' and many if not most generic Linux Desktop Distros don't come with either 'alsa-tools' or 'alsa-firmware-loaders' Packages installed and AVL Does, perhaps that is a place or a Package to look for on other Distros..
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

GMaq wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:22 pm Hi,

I can't say that I have made any explicit effort to support this particular device in AV Linux but an important piece of the hardware puzzle is 'firmware' and many if not most generic Linux Desktop Distros don't come with either 'alsa-tools' or 'alsa-firmware-loaders' Packages installed and AVL Does, perhaps that is a place or a Package to look for on other Distros..
That might just be it! Thanks for clearing that up.
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Re: Cakewalk v-studio 100 on linux

Post by othmay »

Thank you everyone for being who you are, and taking from your time.

Unfortunately I have already installed the firmwares and tools for alsa, I tried reinstalling in case. But nothing came out of it.

@GMaq

Would there be a way for me to "compare" my sound card using AVLinux and Mint, to see where could the issue be ? Or would you have a link for me to get knowledge on a specific subject that could help me (purely as example : alsa modules), simply the subject would actually be great what would you tell me go for first ? I am willing to spend time on it and learn things, I am not simply waiting for a copy and paste command line :D.

Sorry to ask you directly I don't want to waste anyone's time.

In any case thank you all again.
Last edited by othmay on Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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