LinuxMusicians

bhilmers wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:02 pm

Michael Willis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:43 pmWikipedia keeps all prior revisions. You can go back and look at any revision, share a link to it, and even share a link to differences in two revisions.

LOL, of course the mouth-breathers that share Russian Propaganda links don't know this.

It's nice to have immunity. You can say anything w/o any consequences at all.

bhilmers wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:02 pm

Michael Willis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:43 pmWikipedia keeps all prior revisions. You can go back and look at any revision, share a link to it, and even share a link to differences in two revisions.

LOL, of course the mouth-breathers that share Russian Propaganda links don't know this.

I did not know all the scientist that signed that retraction request, worked for the Russians

Pieter Borger(1), Bobby Rajesh Malhotra(2) , Michael Yeadon(3) , Clare Craig(4), Kevin McKernan(5) , Klaus Steger(6) , Paul McSheehy(7) , Lidiya Angelova(8), Fabio Franchi(9), Thomas Binder(10), Henrik Ullrich(11) , Makoto Ohashi(12), Stefano Scoglio(13), Marjolein Doesburg-van Kleffens(14), Dorothea Gilbert(15), Rainer Klement(16), Ruth Schruefer(17), Berber W. Pieksma(18), Jan Bonte(19), Bruno H. Dalle Carbonare(20), Kevin P. Corbett(21), Ulrike Kämmerer(22)

https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/

You should not ask yourself why RT is showing this.
You should ask yourself why your main stream media is ignoring this.

gps (and possibly others)

1) Will good evidence change your opinion that there is a real, deadly pandemic?
2) What constitutes "good evidence" for you?

In other words: Please describe under what circumstances, with what evidence, will you adapt your viewpoint.

Short answer yes.

But I find it hard to say upfront what I would consider good evidence.


Longer answer. ( better get coffee, tea and or a beer )

I am (was) a mechanical engineer, making technical drawing with CAD software, although I am that old, I could do it without a computer on just paper too.

I never believed in paranormal / new age stuff but a few things happened, that ruined this disbelieve.
In an attempt to not go too much off topic, lets say I learned to not ignore my intuition.

Last year when I heard about covid 19 and me having to keep 1.5 meter distance, my intuition went into red alert mode.
The problem with intuition in general is that its often not specific, but I knew it was no fear of getting ill.

This started for me a long search for why my intuition went into red alert mode.

It started with me talking, to somebody who is something like a nurse.
I learned from her, Covid does exist, and you can seriously get ill and or die from it.
She could also answer my question, why I read on facebook that the covid test did not look for covid 19.

She explained the test looks for RNA.

This started for me allot of googling and searching. For starters what is RNA?

Then one of things I found was Pieter Borger, explaining what goes wrong with how the pcr test is applied for covid 19.
The number of positives from that test though, is why you have to stay at home after being tested positive.
All the measurement in all countries are based on the Corman Drosten papers, of which a group of scientist said, its wrong.

I have seen more then one doctor and or scientist explaining why mouth mask don't work.

In my country we were not allowed to wear the ones that might at least help. I can't recall the name right now, but somebody in this topic already mentioned those. (lets call them medical face mask N96 ? )

So I need to wear a mask of which my government had to admit they certainly don't work against viruses (covid 19)
But I have to wear them anyway.
Now they even have the arrogance to claim then numbers go down because we wear mask.

Then one of our ministers said, the masks were not about health but about thought control.

Then there is Klaus Schwab, Corona is a great opportunity. (in 2030 you will own nothing but be happy)

This together with a badly used PCR test, does make me wonder if there is an conspiracy going on, although I will fully admit to not see any proof of a conspiracy. Its possible allot of people just panicked, and still have not gotten over that panic mode.

I still remember the mainstream media showing pictures of people dying in the streets from covid 19.
Which proved to be bullshit.
Our prime minter stating that most people would get ill, also not true. I cant say I am surprised about a politician lying, it would surprise me more if they would speak the truth.

There is allot of evidence I have seen. It wont be easy to convince me, all that evidence is wrong.

Edit:
One thing our media should have done is invited somebody like Peter Borger and then an expert from the other team. The team that is pro all the measurements. but not like they did now, invite people who make allot of money of this covid 19 situation.

nilshi wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:24 pm gps (and possibly others)

1) Will good evidence change your opinion that there is a real, deadly pandemic?
2) What constitutes "good evidence" for you?

In other words: Please describe under what circumstances, with what evidence, will you adapt your viewpoint.

Possibly an otter ? Then here goes:

1)

I will observe, respect and enforce any measures, up to severe sanctions for any disobedient citizen, IF there is a real threat.

In such a case the only liberty to be allowed is the yogurt brand of same name. Liberty is not a factor in such a situation.

The problem is, there is no real threat.

I do not know about your place in the world since I do not know where you reside. Here, there are just about no deaths since quite a long time.

Only cases.

Detected by a device returning a lot of false positives, running at 45 cycles.

Only cases brought up to maintain the population in a state of anxiety. To maintain a state of emergency.

Because right there in the Pfizer pamphlet, as previously shown here, the product - as well as other covid syringe products - can be used ONLY if there is a state of emergency.

2)

A pandemic in the traditional sense, not in the new WHO redefinition sense. Eg: Merriam-Webster:

": an outbreak of a disease that occurs over a wide geographic area (such as multiple countries or continents) and typically affects a significant proportion of the population : a pandemic outbreak of a disease"

And the actual deaths across all members of the population that goes along with it. In such a case a possible scenario is, after 3-4 weeks of an large amount of deaths across all members of the population, assessment is made and measures are put into place.

Note that the definition and the actions are not the same as the redefinition of the word by the WHO. With the WHO computer models are made that predict tendencies. Neal Ferguson, from the Imperial College, is a person who showed up in several previous cases with his alarming simulations that indicates to the WHO and by ricochet to the countries, what to do to prevent things from happening.

Reuters: "Zika outbreak to end in two to three years, scientists predict"

Excerpt:

"“Because the virus is unable to infect the same person twice - thanks to the immune system generating antibodies to kill it - the epidemic reaches a stage where there are too few people left to infect for transmission to be sustained,” study author Neil Ferguson of the School of Public Health at Imperial College London said in a statement. [...] The study was based on mathematical models of the virus, which has been shown to cause microcephaly, a birth defect marked by small head size that can lead to severe developmental problems in babies."

Ferguson is to be found in many such epidemics. What does he really think about his models, by his own actions ? Go ask him. Or ask the BBC.

Moreover, what could be distressing is that protective measures against covid are put into place in the name of humanity and since we do not actually see a lot of deaths across all members of the population and have time to discuss, human interactions are being slammed down, by ridicule against renown scientists, by force against members of the population with even older people getting beaten by the police here and there.

Experimental covid syringe products are then put forth as the saviour, no matter which kind as they are quite different, and in order to bring the barely tested saviour to the masses the state of emergency has to be maintained. If not, these products do become illegal. This is also clearly stated in the Pfizer/BioNTech pamphlet. It should also be mentioned in other covid syringe products like the pamphlet you were given before with allowed time to read receiving your shot.

It's all about same humanity but then, humans are being shut down by police, scientists are being ridiculed by medias and official commentators, by tech people of all kinds, and never ever is the quality of a human in a leading role being questioned, as we all now drink their words.

It does not matter that Tedros is accused of frauds, it does not matter that he has named a tyrant (Mugabe) as honorary ambassador of the WHO. We drink his words. It does not matter that pharmaceuticals are convicted of so many frauds and paid huge fines, as now we all drink their words.

On the pretense that it's good for humanity. In face of a disease from which 99% of the population goes through OK.

We drink and we crash Western economies because old people with comorbities are the main target of this virus, just as they were from the flu.

A thirst is quenched.

merlyn wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:37 pm

jonetsu wrote:We have seen here that there's personal opposition in getting into the VAERS and EudraVigilance numbers.

If you want to analyse data and post the results please feel free to do so. I'm not entirely sure why you expect me to do it.

This was to show that you bring forth, as you did here, only numbers that you feel comfortable with.

The official compiled database numbers are readily available for anyone.

merlyn wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:37 pmI've had the vaccine so I took a more empirical approach to finding out whether Covid vaccines are safe or not. I can confirm that for me and everyone I know they are safe.

You wouldn't go into a corner where you could be moved to outwardly say that you do not care about others. Other families, other children. To feel it is OK, but to find yourself in a position where it might go out in the open is something else.

merlyn wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:37 pmOne way people who feel aggrieved can get closure is by bringing a court case. If this was a court case then you would be the prosecution and you have to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt of your case. You haven't presented a case. You've presented vague hand waving about VAERS. If you want to make a point about this provide the statistics.

There are certainly formal forums to satisfy your need for procedures. And for you to enforce procedures on others. here though, this is an non formal discussion.

Maybe I should shut up and let jonetsu talk on my behalf. He seems much better at factual wording my problems with this "pandemic"

Gps wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:55 pm Maybe I should shut up and let jonetsu talk on my behalf. He seems much better at factual wording my problems with this "pandemic"

As I described in a private msg:

For me it started with the Irak war. I was supporting the liberation of irak from an inhumane dictator. Then the CBC report about the falseness of babies thrown to the ground in a hospital by Iraki soldiers came in. And then the story about how a Kowetian nurse crying at the sight of those poor babies on prime time US TV came in, as she was not a nurse at all but rather the daughter of an emirate. And from there I saw that questioning the medias must be in order.

It was a surprise since years ago I read Jerry Mander's (ex-publicist) "Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television" in which he describes many mechanisms being used to sell, a main one being stress and fear. Thus a TV program would hang on a note of suspense before making way for advertisements. Even though I read that, I still believed that "we" were doing the right thing in Irak, that it was clear cut.

It takes some time to sink in.

jonetsu wrote:"“Because the virus is unable to infect the same person twice - thanks to the immune system generating antibodies to kill it - the epidemic reaches a stage where there are too few people left to infect for transmission to be sustained,” study author Neil Ferguson of the School of Public Health at Imperial College London said in a statement. [...] The study was based on mathematical models of the virus, which has been shown to cause microcephaly, a birth defect marked by small head size that can lead to severe developmental problems in babies."

Neil Ferguson is talking about herd immunity there, which, unfortunately does not seem to be very well understood by the general public. In the UK 'herd immunity' is often used in the context of the UK government failing to respond appropriately. In the UK the government's failures are not in over-reacting and taking away citizen's rights but in not acting quickly enough, not acting decisively enough, not acting strongly enough and easing lockdowns too early leading to a second wave.

The UK ran a real life simulation of a flu pandemic in 2016 called exercise Cygnus and the results showed that the health system was woefully under-prepared for a pandemic. Not wanting to spend money on the problem the government decided that 'herd immunity' was the only workable solution.

To explain herd immunity :

It depends on the R0 of the virus. R0 is the reproductive number of a virus without any countermeasures in place. It might help to think on it as the 'let it rip' number. We've heard about 'the R number' throughout the pandemic and this R number is the effective R number, the lower it is the better the countermeasures are working.

The percentage of the population required to be immune to reduce the effective R to 1 is :

(R0 - 1)/R0

For an R0 of 3, which is around what Covid-19 was at the start of the pandemic (3 - 1)/3 = ~66.7%.

When this percentage of the population are immune the virus is still there, it is endemic but the numbers can't grow exponentially. The effective R is 1, everyone who gets it passes it on to 1 other person and the numbers stay constant.

Herd immunity, then, is where we want to get to. It's a question of how we get there. When the herd immunity policy of the UK government is criticised it should be referred to as the 'let it rip' policy. The conclusion of exercise Cygnus was that there wasn't much that could be done so let the virus rip and there would be deaths. Exercise Cygnus was a simulation of a flu virus with a fatality rate of 0.1%.

When Neil Ferguson heard about this being applied to Covid-19 he went to the government with his figures for a virus with a fatality rate of 1% and the figures were horrifying. 60000000 * 0.67 * 0.01 = 402000. The fascists may say "pffft, so what? Keep the economy going" but in practical terms the UK could not cope with that number of deaths in a short space of time.

Seeing Neil Ferguson's figures thankfully the UK government saw the light, did a one hundred and eighty degree U turn and went into strict lockdown.

So I imagine Neil Ferguson is pretty pleased with his work.

Vaccination will also get us to herd immunity but in a more humane way.

jonetsu wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:32 am

Gps wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:55 pm Maybe I should shut up and let jonetsu talk on my behalf. He seems much better at factual wording my problems with this "pandemic"

As I described in a private msg:

For me it started with the Irak war. I was supporting the liberation of irak from an inhumane dictator. Then the CBC report about the falseness of babies thrown to the ground in a hospital by Iraki soldiers came in. And then the story about how a Kowetian nurse crying at the sight of those poor babies on prime time US TV came in, as she was not a nurse at all but rather the daughter of an emirate. And from there I saw that questioning the medias must be in order.

It was a surprise since years ago I read Jerry Mander's (ex-publicist) "Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television" in which he describes many mechanisms being used to sell, a main one being stress and fear. Thus a TV program would hang on a note of suspense before making way for advertisements. Even though I read that, I still believed that "we" were doing the right thing in Irak, that it was clear cut.

It takes some time to sink in.

Not sure when it started with me. One big factor was me having suddenly a lot more time after getting ill and not being able to find a job again.

I started to watch documentaries, of which I am pretty sure, I would not have the energy while I still had a job.
About how our money system works, and how that does not work in the favour of 99.99999 % of the people on this planet.

Also allot of stuff like PBS space time. (Quantum Mechanics, Black holes, how they currently think our universe started)
Followed lectures from American universities on you tube.

Learned to read sheet music.

But to get back on topic, we definitely need better media.
I wonder allot about one of the conspiracy theories, about the people who own the banks, also own the media.
If you accept this, allot suddenly does make sense.

Gps wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:33 pm Also allot of stuff like PBS space time.

How dare you mis-use PBS Space Time, a prime example for a medium that endorses scientific thinking and technological progress, for your own anti-medical and anti-science agenda.

You are just another conspiracy theorist. Your opinion is not worth anything.

nilshi wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:24 pm

Gps wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:33 pm Also allot of stuff like PBS space time.

How dare you mis-use PBS Space Time, a prime example for a medium that endorses scientific thinking and technological progress, for your own anti-medical and anti-science agenda.

You are just another conspiracy theorist. Your opinion is not worth anything.

I was giving examples of documentaries I have watched and still watch. I love Space Time.

I don't see why I am miss using PBS. I can see though how this does not fit the box you want to put me in.

nilshi wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:24 pm

Gps wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:33 pm Also allot of stuff like PBS space time.

How dare you mis-use PBS Space Time, a prime example for a medium that endorses scientific thinking and technological progress, for your own anti-medical and anti-science agenda.

You are just another conspiracy theorist. Your opinion is not worth anything.

You are trying to close this thread are you.

Gps wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:33 pm Also allot of stuff like PBS space time. (Quantum Mechanics, Black holes, how they currently think our universe started)

I currently like the World Science Festival on youtube.