Let's finance LMMS full-time development

[Louigi Verona]

Hey guys!
I have been studying linux audio for a week, which isn't much, but that was a full-time week, so I've learned quite a lot.
I am impressed by the modular approach and I am very impressed by JACK - JACK is certainly a killer app of linux audio. Routing things in and out, the ease with which you can plug in midi devices and route them into applications and synthesizers - all of that is fantastic.
However, each approach has its positive and negative sides. The negative side of the modular approach is that it is difficult to save a project - for that you have to write down on paper what synths were opened and how the routing was basically organized. And once it is saved, it takes a lot of time to set it back up.
Another negative thing is that some seemingly easy tasks are close to impossible to accomplish. For instance, if you want to edit your midi notes in a piano roll and then export this loop as a tempo precise loop to a wav file, you would have a difficult time. I personally couldn't do it. For instance, Qtractor doesn't have the option of exporting midi clips into wav files, so what you'd do is route the audio signal into Ardour and record the playback, but you would have silence in the beginning and so the loop will not be tempo precise - you will still have to edit it manually.

I would argue that the modular approach is great for acoustic based music, but not very good for electronic music which requires lots of tracks and synchronization and loops.

Now I am sure that there are ways to somehow solve the above-mentioned problems, but I think the most straightforward solution is to be able to have an integrated music composing environment. Having both - modular and integrated - approaches would make linux audio a state of the art environment.

Linux Multimedia Studio is perhaps the only app, at least to my knowledge, that has taken the integrated path. I propose to help it on that conquest.

Let's come together and organize ourselves to donate enough money to LMMS development, so that it can be done full-time, with all the possible attention and care. The more people join, the less each one of us will have to pay.

Once enough people have gathered, we can begin monthly donations.

I am ready to pay even a substantial sum of money to support the program I really like than be made to pay for proprietary software. The situation is in the hands of the community! We can do this! And once LMMS is powered up and developed more - it will become yet another killer app in line with JACK and Ardour and make Linux a completely operational audio system, suitable for all kinds of musicians!

Louigi Verona.

[studio32]

Hey guys!
I have been studying linux audio for a week, which isn't much, but that was a full-time week, so I've learned quite a lot.
I am impressed by the modular approach and I am very impressed by JACK - JACK is certainly a killer app of linux audio. Routing things in and out, the ease with which you can plug in midi devices and route them into applications and synthesizers - all of that is fantastic.
However, each approach has its positive and negative sides. The negative side of the modular approach is that it is difficult to save a project - for that you have to write down on paper what synths were opened and how the routing was basically organized. And once it is saved, it takes a lot of time to set it back up.

They are working on it with LASH and/or LADISH. But you're right.

Another negative thing is that some seemingly easy tasks are close to impossible to accomplish. For instance, if you want to edit your midi notes in a piano roll and then export this loop as a tempo precise loop to a wav file, you would have a difficult time. I personally couldn't do it. For instance, Qtractor doesn't have the option of exporting midi clips into wav files, so what you'd do is route the audio signal into Ardour and record the playback, but you would have silence in the beginning and so the loop will not be tempo precise - you will still have to edit it manually.

You better ask the devs themselves about what possible is or not.
AFAIK you don't have to have silence when you use the jack transport control.

I would argue that the modular approach is great for acoustic based music, but not very good for electronic music which requires lots of tracks and synchronization and loops.

There a quitte some people who make electronic music. Did you take a look at sooperlooper? You also could sponsor a strechtch function or something in apps like Ardour.

Now I am sure that there are ways to somehow solve the above-mentioned problems, but I think the most straightforward solution is to be able to have an integrated music composing environment. Having both - modular and integrated - approaches would make linux audio a state of the art environment.

Linux Multimedia Studio is perhaps the only app, at least to my knowledge, that has taken the integrated path. I propose to help it on that conquest.

Let's come together and organize ourselves to donate enough money to LMMS development, so that it can be done full-time, with all the possible attention and care. The more people join, the less each one of us will have to pay.

Once enough people have gathered, we can begin monthly donations.

I am ready to pay even a substantial sum of money to support the program I really like than be made to pay for proprietary software. The situation is in the hands of the community! We can do this! And once LMMS is powered up and developed more - it will become yet another killer app in line with JACK and Ardour and make Linux a completely operational audio system, suitable for all kinds of musicians!

Louigi Verona.

You could use Renoise, but it's closed source.
LMMS doesn't support Jack very well, so I have my doubts about that.
At the end I think working with jack and the one task one tool principle is not so bad for open source. It's not perfect but I don't think a all in one app will be perfect. And when there is something missing, and it has no Jack support, you are very limited to fix that imho.

Learn more, get in contact with devs of your fav apps and with artists which also make electronic music on Linux. For example: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/08/0 ... m-cascone/

Learn what is missing and decide what you want to sponsor.. Good luck!

[brummer]

As far as I know, Paul Davis is the only "FullTime Payed By Comunity" linux audio developer we have in the Linux audio world, and when I get the situation right, it's a hard ride for him to get the needed donations to go on.

So, sorry, but for me, when people are willing to donate linux audio development, I would say, donate ardour.

But anyway, it's a good effort to ask for organised community donations for linux audio development.

regards brummer

[studio32]

Better other apps on GNU/Linux helps also Ardour in an indirect way. So if you use LMMS a lot and Ardour not, why donate for Ardour and not for LMMS?

But I don't donate to pro audio applications on GNU/Linux which don't have good Jack support and LMMS still lacks it...

[StudioDave]

As some of you know already, I reviewed LMMS for my column in the Linux Journal:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/int ... dia-studio

In the article I noted that while LMMS is indeed a rockin' sweet app, its JACK support is poor. I further noted that it really needs perfected JACK support for the app to become truly awesome. The bottom line in modern Linux audio development is JACK, and IMO the LMMS devs ought to cease all other development and get the app working flawlessly with JACK.

Best,

dp

[Louigi Verona]

Did you take a look at sooperlooper?

Yes, I have.

The bottom line in modern Linux audio development is JACK, and IMO the LMMS devs ought to cease all other development and get the app working flawlessly with JACK.

Perhaps true. They are working on it.


Most replies say that they do not want to donate, as far as I have understood this. It is natural. These initiatives take time to fire off. You say that the Ardour developer is the only developer who is working full time. I think it's about time we change that.

I like LMMS. No matter how much people would tell me that modular approach is "good enough for open source" or that it is convenient, I have to go by what I believe. I believe that "good enough for open source" is not enough and that to me personally setting up a dozen of synths and reroute them is fun, but not always. I want an alternative stable integrated DAW.

[brummer]

Better other apps on GNU/Linux helps also Ardour in an indirect way. So if you use LMMS a lot and Ardour not, why donate for Ardour and not for LMMS?

Donate Ardour means donate Paul Davis. He is the father of jack, that's the heart of Linux Pro Audio. Let's make sure that the heart beats. That's why I would say donate Paul Davis, no mather witch audio application you prefer.
But, please note, that's only my simple mind, only my kind of view, nothing against a effort to donate other projects, everybody must decide for himself who he wone donate for the work. I just wone mark that it is a hard ride for a developer to depend on community donations, I guess there are not many developers out there be willing to take that way. We all need money to life, who is give away his job with a neat income for a unsure, every month differ donation ? That's what I mean, I know only one.
So your effort to pay the dev's for there work so that they could work harder, must also find a developer who is willing to do so. Development power in the open source scene (except the kernel) come more from the heart then from the payment. Sure, it's a neat peace of sugar to revive a donation but, for the most projects that make no diff, it's just a Acknowledgment.

regards brummer

[Louigi Verona]

I think it will take a lot of time to set up donations properly. That's one. Also, I will also be searchig for a company that would be interested in sponsoring.

Another idea is to collect donations and at least allow the developer to take a vacation from his job and for a couple of weeks focus on LMMS - those two weeks paid by the community.

In general, I am donating to a lot of projects. But saying that there is only one person who deserves a donation is not my cup of tea. I believe that the mindset of people who use free software allows to understand that. And I believe that LMMS is a worthy project that can gather quite a user base around it.

ps: if we can't finance it for full-time yet, we can at least try to donate more. it will be a first step.

[brummer]

. But saying that there is only one person who deserves a donation is not my cup of tea.

Don't get me wrong, I said it's the only one I know who is willing to do so.

In general, I am donating to a lot of projects.

A neat peace of Sugar, anyway. I didn't mean it bad, it's nice, donations are welcome by many projects, but you talk about to pay a developer fulltime for his work in your entry post. That's a diff, collect mony to pay for to weeks is more realistic, find a company for sponsorship is also a nice Idea. A call to people that open source didn't mean free beer is also the right way. Donate more is a good entry. Donate in mony or in source, if you can.
If we all put together what we have, we could create the better OS for musicians, where we all talk about.

[Louigi Verona]

Yep, yep, yep, I am just clearing up my position. Being new to linux audio I too can have not very good suggestions or suggestions that might not be realistic with the current state of things.

Anyway, having gathered more info on Ardour financing I can see that my initiative might seem unrealistic. Perhaps it is at the moment. But maybe initiatives such as these are a first step.

[spm_gl]

What linux audio really needs is a financing foundation, not for a single app but rather for a good selection of promising projects. A foundation could also set the rules for financing, which gives people more trust.
Zettberlin and I actually spoke about something along these lines the other day, but no real conclusion so far.
Postscriptum:
As a company I can't easily donate money to a single developer. But I can easily become a member of a consortium, with monthly or annual fees, which would go to the developers.

[studio32]

What linux audio really needs is a financing foundation, not for a single app but rather for a good selection of promising projects. A foundation could also set the rules for financing, which gives people more trust.
Zettberlin and I actually spoke about something along these lines the other day, but no real conclusion so far.
Postscriptum:
As a company I can't easily donate money to a single developer. But I can easily become a member of a consortium, with monthly or annual fees, which would go to the developers.

In the light of your suggestion, a nice example is the Blender foundation, blender.org !!

http://www.blender.org/blenderorg/blend ... ion/about/

[brummer]

The Linux Foundation have just bring out a new Report about the situation in kernel development,
Who Writes Linux and Who Supports It

[spm_gl]

Actually, the infrastructure already exists:

Linuxaudio.org is a not-for-profit consortium of libre software projects and artists, companies, institutions, organizations, and hardware vendors using Linux kernel-based systems and allied libre software for audio-related work, with an emphasis on professional tools for the music, production, recording, and broadcast industries. The consortium aims to co-ordinate joint projects between members, collaborate on the promotion of Linux based systems for audio tasks, offer programs beneficial to members and subsequently its mission, and provide a single point of contact for prospective industry partners.

But they are not very active in actually supporting development. And don't reply to emails either.

[Louigi Verona]

The way I see it, a lot of applications which exist on linux are very good apps and need just a bit more attention to really become fantastic products. Ardour is so great and deep because its developer could focus on it for a long time.
So I will see what I can do as well - I will research what companies can be interested in investing into a free software DAW.