COVID-19

[Noahsark]

I wanted to post this here to bring the conversation back to the present event.

Is COVID-19 Even Real?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvLx17N ... e=youtu.be

https://www.globalresearch.ca/manufactu ... 19/5707781

[Noahsark]

Here is a video of people filming hospitals - showing that there
are hardly any people at the hospitals when the media is putting out false news
that there is all of these sick people there- please look and see for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pIMD1enwd4

[Noahsark]

Jonetsu,

Li seems on with what he is saying from the quote up above. There is so much evidence of the ancient alien presence
it is uncanny. Carlos Castenada writes in his book "The Active side of Infinity" where Don Juan tells him of the predator
"who has given us their minds." I feel that it is the ego within man which is the mind of the predator:

https://www.overwatchproject.com/blog-o ... f-infinity

I am not so sure about your take on viruses that you posted. Sure anything that "invades" the body can give the immune system
a work out and help to strengthen it and ultimately nature will always seek balance for sure.

I agree there is too much focus on symptoms rather than looking at the roots of disease. Also there is the problem of reductionist thinking that
always fails to see the bigger picture, which is at the roots of disfunction when it comes to modern medicine.

Too much of the time money influences science; that what we have for the most part is misconstrued findings and junk science - where
the real gems of discovery are being suppressed.

So Yeah man, balance is so important because without it true health can not be achieved.
Mental stress will certainly deplete ones immune system and it is the immune system that
is on the front line of dealing with disease.

If you are having breathing problems - milk and dairy products can have adverse effects on your respiratory system.
If you cut out the dairy breathing issues as well as allergies will improve and completely go away if one stays away
from the dairy.

http://www.vibrancyuk.com/dairy.html

[raboof]

I like how this topic, while discussing some pretty controversial stuff, has remained friendly. Thanks for that!

Here is a video of people filming hospitals - showing that there
are hardly any people at the hospitals when the media is putting out false news
that there is all of these sick people there- please look and see for yourself

A friend of mine is a doctor here in the Netherlands. Normally an internist, they're now being reassigned to the 'corona team' just like many others, meaning the hospital is cutting down on treatment of other diseases to be able to bear the corona load. With those measures they seem to be keeping up (at least for now). A friend of a friend was supposed to be treated for their cancer, which is at risk of spreading, but that appointment has had to be indefinitely postponed.

I don't doubt that mainstream media are exaggerating things, and that these independent people putting out video's are as well. The hospitals are definitely feeling the increased load here, though.

[Noahsark]

Raboof,

Have your friend post a video of what is going on at the hospital to show the people what is going on.

All information on this plandemic is just that - it is a plan to usher in the global government through the united nations. This is the unfolding of agenda 21. look it up and read the un's document on it...

So with that said - I am not saying that this virus is not happening at the same time, evidence proves that this is bio-weapon that was released.

Now there is information that suggest that this bio-weapon was made at the fort detrick level 4 bio-weapons lab and there were a bunch of weird news reports on strange diseases framed as vaping "illnesses" around the the time that fort detrick was shut down by the cdc.

Some reports are also suggesting that there were different strains released that were race specific to the chinese and the iranian people. Which would also explain the huge increase in cases in italy since the italian people and iranians share similar genetics.

Other things to consider since all of the evidence points to this being a bio-weapon release, that is quite possible that "they" could just release it were ever they like to create spikes of outbreaks to keep the operation rolling. Which could be the case in the area that your friends hospital serves.

Here is some more reports from Whitney Webb to consider
An interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYZ2VzQ4ghE

and her latest article:
https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com ... rk-winter/

Do your due diligence raboof and seek the truth - our future depends on it!

[jonetsu]

The video about the hospitals being empty is quite stunning. I will watch others a bit later.

As for breathing problems, it want away a few years ago, after I started to do some qi gong, or rather, some internal martial arts in the broad sense. This is different from learning moves to some kind of slow dance, while remaining superficial. Some moves have to be learned to start with since that's what we often do best, mimicking. After some time though a curious person can get deeper into this and start to address the approach, the way, of doing things which is the essence of it. The breathing, the active relaxation, all things that in the longer run proved to be beneficial to health and spirit. At least in my case, but I think with many dedicated people also. Dedicated because there's an effort that has to be made. Some people stop at the 'dance'. They learn the moves then do not go deeper. This was in essence the approach taken by the american gov't in Japan and the communist gov't in China when they suppressed martial arts at some point.

It's not for decoration that many Chinese martial arts training places have shovels, umbrellas, sticks, hoes and such common objects. Martial arts were a way to protect the people against governments. People learned how to be efficient in defending themselves using anything they could have around. The same in Japan. So they were shut down, only to re-appear later, distilled of this essence. More of a health activity, which is very important, although removed were all aspects that could lead to having crowds versed in effective combat skills. This said the health aspects are important but they are not only attained by mimicking the steps tot he dance. A deeper introspection needs to take place. It's kind of in-between sitting meditation and moving.

So after the first year I started that in all honesty I was surprised to find out that there were no breathing problems anymore. I haven't had a flu either since 7 years now, except 1-2 days last month which I think was due to this new strain of the "coronavirus". For me when I hear people saying that the emotional and mental state one is in has an influence on the immune system I cannot do otherwise but agree because this is what I mostly have experienced.

Which goes back to the Truthstream Media link when Melissa speaks about the immune system.

Being actively relaxed, flowing, is a good condition that promotes clear thinking or what would be called today objective thinking and has positive effect on health as a bonus.

There are so many and varied examples around. So many terms and names, qi gong, tai chi, xing yi, nei gong, baguazhang, zhan zhuang, and more, although the basis for all of them is just about the same. Since there are many different people, many different expressions of the same were created through the centuries. The basis is what's more important, and what must be discovered at a personal level as it cannot be mimicked.

Here's a short 2 minute video from someone who also makes a real down-to-earth link with this inner knowledge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TViCXi7f29c

Here's another one with a first song that starts at 00:50. 'Songs' were used in China to circulate knowledge through history. The words of the songs pinpoints some of the principles in a modern way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62ALLUFt19M

[jonetsu]

I like how this topic, while discussing some pretty controversial stuff, has remained friendly. Thanks for that!

Hmmm... I do not see how it could be otherwise. I must be shortsighted At times.

[merlyn]

@Noahsark What you're saying sounds like Trump two weeks ago. If you find yourself agreeing with Trump chances are you're completely wrong!

[jonetsu]

@Noahsark What you're saying sounds like Trump two weeks ago. If you find yourself agreeing with Trump chances are you're completely wrong!

I'm certainly no listening nor watching Trump much. I find it a bit difficult to listen to someone with that low level of flexibility in his speech. Mind you, other politicians do address the crowds with such of a simplified, if not 'childish' rhetoric. Trump is not unique although a prominent figure in that field. That he's at the head of a country that has military bases all around the world makes him very visible. One would never hear of such a president if the country was Lichtenstein for instance.

This said, I do not recall him going along with the narrative that hospitals are deserted. Have you heard him about the closing of the Fort Derrick bio research lab after the CDC went in for non observation of protocols and at just about the same time some cases around were found of people having a 'strange' respiratory illness ? Did you hear him saying that ?

(Of course I did not observe the Noahsark name in bold red in your reply, IF the bold red attributes were of your doing. This is open for everybody to participate)

[sysrqer]

As someone who's partner is a medical practitioner I can confirm that hospitals are certainly not deserted, at least not in the European country we live in.

[CrocoDuck]

@Noahsark

Right, I have been trying to keep away from this thread as this illness claimed the life of 3 people I know, and killed 25 people a day in my home town in Italy in the last 2 weeks. Friends of mine in the healthcare system are working mad shifts and the army has been employed to set up field hospitals and carry away the dead for cremation. Sorry if I am not in the mood to read the whole wall of text you guys have left behind, and address all the specific points. Classic TL;DR. But also classic "no energy at the moment to fight against confirmation bias".

I will just mention this: you are not seeing hospitals being overwhelmed yet in the USA or wherever you live? Get acquainted with the logistic growth of epidemics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kas0tIxDvrg

A friendly reminder: the evolution of any natural phenomenon is dictated by the rates of growth of quantities, not the amount of the quantity itself. I will leave it here.

Epidemics are nothing but the mathematical inevitability of the logistic curve. And you will see it.

[jonetsu]

I will just mention this: you are not seeing hospitals being overwhelmed yet in the USA or wherever you live?

This is obviously not the point. It's rather about the enormous discrepancy between what the US mainstream media reports and what those people have filmed at various hospital locations in the US.

Assuming that the filming was done in appropriate time and not 3 months ago.

But then, why would a mainstream US TV media take footage of a busy hospital in Italy from the 22nd to pretend this was int he US on the 25th? With TV footage to support the evidence.

This is what it's about. Not that there's a new virus or not. In the same vein it's possible to question how the PCR tests are actually working ? What are they measuring exactly ? The specific COVID-19 viral charge in one's organism ? How does it work ?

Just look at how prof. Didier Raoult in France was dragged publicly in the mud in the French medias for the 70-years old cholorquine, him who is an international figure about infectious diseases, leading the Marseille IHU on the matter ? Why was he in conflict with the minister of health Buyzn whose husband works close to the pharmas at the INSERM ? Not to mention Buyzn herself and the direct professional link to pharmaceuticals. Why has prof. Raoult received several time death threats by phone in the middle of the night ?

Why was the hydrochloroquine classified amongst venomous substances on January 5th 2020 in France after 70 years of existence and after being prescribed to millions of people ? Link to the French gov't available.

This is largely questioning the role of the medias as it seems that something is not entirely right, something that cannot be blamed on ignorance.

Could it be that high levels of pollution in the Po Valley in Italy plays a role in weakening people's immune system ?

""On a European scale, the air pollution level is comparable only to southern Poland, where there is a coal industry and frightening sources of pollution"."

https://www.thelocal.it/20190228/po-val ... tion-italy

Is it still possible to ask questions ?

[CrocoDuck]

But then, why would a mainstream US TV media take footage of a busy hospital in Italy from the 22nd to pretend this was int he US on the 25th? With TV footage to support the evidence.

Because Italy on the 22nd will be the USA in a few weeks from the 22nd. This is how epidemics grow, that is what I refer to as the inevitability of logistic curves. Italy now = future of any other country that started later with the spreading. It might have not been framed like that by the media which, granted, are after sensationalism. In fact, I highly doubt that they reported it in any sensible way. It is still very relevant information, though, as it shows how things will be going. Information that can be used to prepare ahead, and maybe have an end result not quite Italy instead. And as such it should be taken, after the sensationalism is put aside, but it is being dismissed as scaremongering instead. And this is beyond me. There is a real example of how bad things can go, but instead of learning from it is best to speculate on what hidden plots there might be behind the media?

Is it still possible to ask questions ?

Of course. What is not philosophically honest is to invent answers to those questions, however rational those might be, and elevate them to truth. Good questions, very well posed, very rational. But speculation is not an answer to any of them. Scientific research brings the answers.

That of pollution is a good example. Let's assume that there is correlation between pollution and the mortality rate, if that is the correct technical term (I keep on confusing between a bunch of them). Correlation and causality are not the same thing. At the same time in the same area the average age of the population is higher than anywhere else in Europe (and pretty much the rest of the world a part Japan, if I am not mistaken). The virus is known to produce more severe symptoms on older people. So, does pollution cause higher mortality in affected people? Does smoking? Or are they confounding factors that tend to appear together with the real causes of mortality for unrelated reasons? Only a scientific experiment can tell. And/or, crossing data from areas with less pollution after they got the virus to spread. At the moment, the data is incomplete, which is why even the specialist of the field retain from making conclusions.

[jonetsu]

Because Italy on the 22nd will be the USA in a few weeks from the 22nd.

See the specific sequence, it's 64 seconds long:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/5pIMD1enw ... 71&end=126

We then have to assume some basis in order to validate showing people footage from another country while their mayor is complaining about the lack of resources. We can assume that independently of any measures taken the spread will be the same. Population proportions and conditions in which they live also does not matter at all. You have undoubtedly seen many times some of the conditions in which people live in China, in large cities as well as the countryside. Then a population of 1.5 billion is the same as say, the population of Iceland. That for instance a large population eating a lot of fast food as in the US for instance is the same as the population of Switzerland.

The problem is that it's not so easy to accept those justifications that gives such a footage total validity.

It is still very relevant information, though, as it shows how things will be going.

I'm afraid to say that the above sequence should have been labeled as such. Show the mayor of NYC and print clearly on the screen that the footage is from Italy.

What we could be hearing is the now famous cookie-cutter answer: "We didn't knew. This is a crisis. We made a mistake"

There is a real example of how bad things can go, but instead of learning from it is best to speculate on what hidden plots there might be behind the media?

Exactly. Like the zika pandemic from the WHO. Wrong example, that one did not took off. Speaking of the WHO, why has Tedros honored tyrant Robert Mugabe promoting him as an honorific ambassador of the WHO ? The promotion was removed after so many people were outraged. The intent is what's important. What about accusations against Tedros of being in the center of frauds during Ethiopian epidemics ?

Isn't it a good time to question the use of computer models ? I mean it's not like me and you are about to die, aren't we ? It's not like we are madly lacking toilet paper. Moreover, it's not like we are lacking total empathy in doing so.

What is not philosophically honest is to invent answers to those questions, however rational those might be, and elevate them to truth. Good questions, very well posed, very rational. But speculation is not an answer to any of them. Scientific research brings the answers.

So then we stop the economy of Western countries (1) and wait until the studies have shown which remedy is the best.

Isn't this a war, as France president Macron puts it publicly ? If this is a war against a virus, then why wait for studies ? If you get mugged on the street, will you ask the mugger to be in that and that position so you can use this and this technique learnt in the self-defense course ?

Obviously not. You haven't addressed the case of prof. Raoult but I'll come back to him. It might be that you do not know his case. Hopefully his looks will not matter. Being at the head of perhaps the most important European lab of infectious diseases should matter over his long hair, his red watch, and the ring he wears on a finger. I mean, it's not like he has promoted a former dictator.

Why drag him publicly in the mud for his recommended use of chloroquine/azithromycin ? Why was a talk show host almost laughing in his face ? I mention Raoult again since his approach is one of a 'war'. Direct action using cheap available medecine WHILE continuing research. As a larger counter argument to the stance which solely consists of waiting upon studies.

That of pollution is a good example. Let's assume that there is correlation between pollution and the mortality rate, ...

Of course causality and correlation are not the same. Following this agreement we could immediately jump to the counter argument: pollution is safe for people. Let's show that pollution does not matter. Actually let's approve that a distance of 5 to 10 meters is safe to protect oneself during farmers' spraying of chemicals over their fields. Like it was done in France: to approve what's written on the barrels of pesticides. That's a positive step towards establishing that pollution does not matter for people.

Then we could rewrite history. Let's rewrite the Wikipedia page on the London Great Smog of 1952 where it ashamedly starts with: "The Great Smog of London, or Great Smog of 1952, was a severe air-pollution event that affected the British capital of London in early December 1952." to continue with: "Government medical reports in the following weeks, however, estimated that up until 8 December, 4,000 people had died as a direct result of the smog and 100,000 more were made ill by the smog's effects on the human respiratory tract."

The virus is known to produce more severe symptoms on older people. So, does pollution cause higher mortality in affected people? Does smoking? Or are they confounding factors that tend to appear together with the real causes of mortality for unrelated reasons? Only a scientific experiment can tell.

Are you actually saying that smoking is OK for health ? Can I even say that Basudin is safe for people because for one summer I sprayed it slowly driving a tractor without wearing any mask while working on a farm ? Can the old farmer say that DDT is safe because at 70 he sprayed it all his life w/o any mask ?

Science can tell. And IMHO I think it has told.

Is the condition of having a weakened immune system (by any means you can imagine) a condition that can lead to develop sicknesses ? IMHO I think that science is quite positive about that.

And/or, crossing data from areas with less pollution after they got the virus to spread. At the moment, the data is incomplete, which is why even the specialist of the field retain from making conclusions.

The data will be complete by the end.

It's at the end that one will count the money loss after being mugged.

Because of course, the mugger did not wait.

The other problem with this, as you might have witnessed, is that there are scientific experts everywhere. Bayer/Monsanto has scientific experts for instance, don't you agree ? Why oh why are they controversial if they are scientific experts ?

On philosophy: François Jullien is a known philosopher who bridges the East (China) and the West (Greece). His works are translated in many languages. His 'pedigree' if needed can be easily checked. It's an excellent read I find - hopefully in English too - and I've read many of his books. And am still reading from time to time. His "A Treatise on Efficacy" is available in PDF format.

This is a 41-page summary:

https://blas.com/wp-content/uploads/201 ... ficacy.pdf

This is the book:

https://uberty.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... inking.pdf

How fundamental are the differences in approaches. For one, we, Greek and biblically influenced, are making models and we force the environment into these models. Which is very different from the Chinese philosophical approach. Making that book an interesting read, if only for the exercise, flexing some grey matter.

Note

(1) Since it's probable that sensational media (a lot of the medias) would be happy to glue people to their screens and sponsors with more sensationalism, decaying corpses in the streets of India and Africa would certainly be shown, with totally overwhelmed hospitals. So to speak, so to take a vivid illustrative stance. But they are not. You know how the presence of Chinese people in Africa is strong ? Building the world's second largest mosque in Algeria, building highways and train railways, developing technology in agriculture, being in so many parts of the economy by practicing 'stadium politics' which consists of literally building large stadiums to please people, so on so forth, all activities that implies a large number of China <-> Africa travels. Not to mention the large number of Black people in Guangdong and their coming in/out of China. By this, Africa should be very near the forefront of the epidemic. And it should be affected seriously by now, which in turn would be fare for those medias. The question is: why aren't we seeing very tragic news from Africa ?

[Noahsark]

Thank you Jonetsu for taking the time to share your insights and knowledge here, it is much appreciated.

I have had a long day and am tired - I just wanted to chime in and say that I will address your post when I get the time; CrocoDuck, sysrqer, and merlyn.

It will most likely be tomorrow... til then...