It's Hard to Run a DAW

[Luc]

I have Tracktion 6. It works, but it crashes a lot, a lot, a lot, an awful lot. I can't rely on Tracktion.

What else can I use?

I just tried to try their newest Waveform. It doesn't run on my computer. It depends on libstdc++6 (>= 5.2), and Debian Jessie only has 4.9.2-10.

Upgrade Debian? Not so fast. I have a demo of an old version of Bitwig. It works, but I have to have an old version of ffmpeg "pinned" (blocked from upgrades in debian speak), or Bitwig won't run. Maybe they did that on purpose, so we are forced to buy new versions of Bitwig whenever ffmpeg is upgraded. Who knows?

But don't count too much on that either: I installed the latest Bitwig (also demo) on another computer: it didn't make any sound at all, while ANY other audio application worked fine. I contacted support and... nope! They only support Ubuntu. I offered to run tests and troubleshoot, but they flat out refused it. So I can't rely on Bitwig.

I have Ardour 5. It works, but Windows plugins on Airwave crash. I can't do my stuff without Windows plugins. So I can't rely on Ardour or Mixbus (I tried both).

Qtractor runs Windows/Airwave, but it completely chokes on my large collection of plugins. Whenever I try, I have to kill it. So I can't rely on Qtractor.

I really dislike Reaper, I hate the GUI and workflow, but maybe it will end up saving my day? Will I be able to rely on it? We shall see.

Don't mind me, I'm just venting my frustration.

[English Guy]

Try Mixbus, the demo is free and they occasionally have great sales.

[Jack Winter]

You can try LinVst, I've had much better success with it than with airwave. https://github.com/osxmidi/LinVst Carla is another possibility you might want to investigate: http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/Applications

Otherwise if all fails, try running the windows version of reaper in wine, it will work with most any windows plugin, though it depends on wine (like all these solutions do), so some plugins might have problems.

[ssj71]

Windows plugins on Airwave crash

Are you doing this with all the DAWs?

You are running binaries compiled for a different operating system through a compatibility layer hooked into another process that has only very sparse information about that binary and expecting it to work in real time?

If thats really want you want to/must do then carry on, but that's exactly why I promote using native plugins on their native systems. Its a bit of a gamble, some have good luck with it and some don't. Remember to ask your local dev to support your platform (squeaky wheels get grease).

[Luc]

Try Mixbus, the demo is free and they occasionally have great sales.

I tried both Ardour and Mixbus. I said so in my original post.

You can try LinVst, I've had much better success with it than with airwave.

I've had none. I could not compile it (don't remember why) and the only binary I found didn't work.
I don't really look forward to it, to be honest. The idea of spraying an .so file all over the file system... Ugh! Airwave is a lot better organized.

Carla is another possibility you might want to investigate.

I am very familiar with Carla and it doesn't quite suit me. It's doesn't establish the connections automatically, it sits as a middleman between the plugin and the DAW (unlike Airwave), and reindexing EVERYTHING whenever I add/install a new plugin is a nightmare.

Are you doing this with all the DAWs?
You are running binaries compiled for a different operating system through a compatibility layer hooked into another process that has only very sparse information about that binary and expecting it to work in real time?

If thats really want you want to/must do then carry on, but that's exactly why I promote using native plugins on their native systems.

Not sure what you mean, but Airwave works fine on all DAWs except Ardour/Mixbus. And that is why I can't use Ardour/Mixbus. The problems with the other DAWs are different from this one.

[sysrqer]

I can recommend linvst as well, runs much more stable for me. I tend not to use windows vst in ardour very often but when I do there are not the problems with linvst that I've had with airwave.

I don't think the problem with bitwig is some evil attempt to make you buy more versions but they (like many companies) use ubuntu as a benchmark, if you use debian stable then it makes sense that sometimes there will be problems like that (it can work the other way sometimes with fresher distros - such as the ardour binaries not allowing the gxplugins gui to show on Arch - although less so I would imagine). I've never really understood the appeal of running a pretty old system under the guise of stability, just seems to be more hassle that it is worth and it's not like devs don't keep working on software to fix bugs and generally make it better. That's another discussion though...

I use renoise and think it's fantastic but I know it's not for everyone. Other than that, ardour can work for you I think with linvst. Or you could run reaper in wine, it works well and vsts seem to run better than they do in any wrapper.

[sysrqer]

I've had none. I could not compile it (don't remember why) and the only binary I found didn't work.
I don't really look forward to it, to be honest. The idea of spraying an .so file all over the file system... Ugh! Airwave is a lot better organized.

It doesn't spray any thing all over the file system. It creates .so files in the same place as the .dll. It's not really any different than having airwave's .so files in a hidden directory.
It definitely does work though, I would contact the developer, he posts here I think and is quite quick to respond to queries.

[AAA]

I really dislike Reaper, I hate the GUI and workflow

YMMV, this isn't an answer to your problems, unfortunately, but it's my personal experience with reaper.

The thing I liked most when I was using reaper was the fact that if you don't like something you can change it. The GUI, for example, is available in hundreds of user created themes.

The available commands and shortcuts is just the tip of the tip of the iceberg: you can customise any key to thousands of actions (way more than that if you can install SWS on linux, but I'm not sure if you can). You can do basically everything you want with a single key by the use of macros. Whatever you did on cubase/protools/ableton/whatever, you can probably put together a macro that does it, probably even better aligned with how exactly you want it.

For example, in reaper, if a split action selects the second clip, you can add "select previous clip" or something to the macro you are using the split in. In many other daws, if you wanted your split to do that (or the opposite, depending on the default), tough luck.

[Jack Winter]

Both sws and reapack are available on linux.

[Luc]

It doesn't spray any thing all over the file system. It creates .so files in the same place as the .dll. It's not really any different than having airwave's .so files in a hidden directory.

.so files in the same place as the .dll files is all over the system, the opposite of in one single directory + a plain, joyfully editable text file with paths.

It definitely does work though, I would contact the developer, he posts here I think and is quite quick to respond to queries.

About that... https://github.com/osxmidi/LinVst/issues/14

[sysrqer]

It doesn't spray any thing all over the file system. It creates .so files in the same place as the .dll. It's not really any different than having airwave's .so files in a hidden directory.

.so files in the same place as the .dll files is all over the system, the opposite of in one single directory + a plain, joyfully editable text file with paths.

I don't know how you install your windows plugins but mine are all in one directory. There are a few sub directories inside that but I don't see how they can be all over your system. You install them in to ~/.wine so in the worst case scenario they would be inside there.
Suit yourself though

[rghvdberg]

Useless comment by me.
If your music is that dependent on windows plugins do yourself a favour and use windows for that.

[Luc]

Useless comment by me.
If your music is that dependent on windows plugins do yourself a favour and use windows for that.

I agree. I can do quit well with ardour without win plugins (so many other very good plugins for it).
Extremely surprising how good that totally free software works.

But at the end it's a choice to make for each one in person. If one chooses for win, fine. Why shouldn't he?

I then can recommend Steinberg Cubase Pro 9. It's great!
Be sure to hold some money behind to also buy the latest fast computer system to run it on.
And be sure to buy a good antivirus protection and backup system. And start saving money for the next new setup to replace your slowing down sys within 2 years (i would say at least about $1000 investment each 1,5 to 2 years?)
It's no more than a choice.

I consider these sarcastic comments rude and pointless. Zero contribution to anything at all.

[AAA]

I then can recommend Steinberg Cubase Pro 9. It's great!
Be sure to hold some money behind to also buy the latest fast computer system to run it on.
And be sure to buy a good antivirus protection and backup system. And start saving money for the next new setup to replace your slowing down sys within 2 years (i would say at least about $1000 investment each 1,5 to 2 years?)

I can run a decent orchestral template in REAPER with a ~1000$ computer (and a ram upgrade, for a total of 32GB) from 4 years ago, and I never ran an antivirus, except for the occasional paranoid kaspersky/bitdefender/whatever AVcomparative shows to be good check. How are you going to get a virus if you windows update your system and don't visit sketchy websites, in practice? The occasional global malware crisis doesn't typically affect up to date systems, and usually you also have to do something wrong.

What kind of processor lineup are you thinking about when you say that you can get significantly more performance every two years?

And sure, I spent much more than that on the orchestral libraries themselves, but you cannot use anything else in an orchestral context. The free stuff unfortunately sounds like a parody of the real thing. Not that I'm underestimating the effort of recording a pro-level library, on the contrary that's exactly why a good sampled orchestra costs in the thousands and why the Davids are going to have a pretty hard time against the Golias here.

You are way overstating the cost difference (if there even is one). What kind of requirements does an ardour session with 150 tracks, most of those with effects, have? I suspect it's going to be close to the Cubase you are citing.

backup system

linux, osx, windows, openbsd, redoxOS, you need a backup system anyway. drives fail, raid arrays fail, you rm the wrong folder or dd the wrong drive. If a thief breaks into your studio and steals your stuff what is linux going to do to give you back your data?

If your music is that dependent on windows

It's no more than a choice.

not really, linux is missing some stuff that is virtually mandatory for a modern studio. whatever your opinion of these tools, where are the melodyne/autotune of linux? where are the hundreds of terabytes of professionally recorded samples (kontakt/ew play/superior drummer)? If you have a piece of audio you cannot record again but is broken in some way, are you going to be able to do as good a job as Izotope RX?

And that's just what you straight up can't replicate. It's not that I *need* kotelnikov, limiter no6 or mequalizer, but they sure are nice to have.

This is just in a commercial situations though. For all the knobs and options in zynaddsubfx, can you really compare it to Serum? Can you really compare any linux synth to serum? I'm sure you can use zynaddsubfx to write neurofunk but I guess it's not going to be as fun as playing with serum.

I consider these sarcastic comments rude and pointless. Zero contribution to anything at all.

I agree 100%. I love linux and I think the unix way is the right way for audio, but if we can't even agree that we are way behind there is no hope to get ahead.

[Luc]

So without any sarcasme

My foot. There is a world of difference between embracing an operating system and wanting to run individual pieces of software originally made for another operating system, which actually run on the operating system of my choice but not in certain applications because of minor impediments in the last mile.

If you don't have the IQ to understand that without my explaining it, please refrain from sharing your thoughts with me again. You're feigning ignorance, it's plain clear and it's disrespectful. Go tell your nonsense to the people behind the winehq project and let's see how they will treat you.

I won't reply to you anymore.