LinuxMusicians

Curiouser and curiouser

OK, I'm wondering if there is something odd about that MIDI file, it seems you're not getting any note-offs for a start.

In File->Open there is an 'examples' option. Look for one called the-rose-garden.rg
I've just double checked it and it runs perfectly with a number of soundfonts, (and also into a soft-synth too!)

Also in 'View' bring up the Transport window and have it showing 'additional controls'. This has the rather useful feature of showing what it (thinks it) is sending and receiving. It doesn't say whether anything is actually getting it of course.

What version of Qsynth do you have? The one here is 0.3.8. Did you build it yourself or is it a distro package? I run various flavours of debian, and that has FluidR3_GM available, but it seems it doesn't get installed by default any more (I'm sure it used to, along with the other one).

The activity button on my version is the dark grey dot in the Qsynth box to the left of the word. Do you not see that at all?


Something I forgot to mention before.

If you start Rosgarden without Qjackctl, then (unless you have disabled the feature) it will start jackd - possibly the dbus version, but when you close, it doesn't stop the server. This is not a bug, as Rosegarden can't know if anything else has started to use jack. That's why you were getting no sound after running it. However, if you run with Qjackctl, then because it's the boss it will shut the server down when you quit.

Thanks folderol and glowrak guy for your patience.

glowrak guy, I've done as you say:

Changed the qjackctl MIDI Driver setting to 'none'.

Selected a soundfont, this time Fluid R3 (which I downloaded from the net, i couldn't install vmpk, and it's not with Qsynth)

In the alsa tab of qjackctl, I've connected FLUID Synth on the right to M Audio-xyz on the left, and M Audio-xyz on the left to Midi Through on the right. And in the qjackctl Audio tab, I've connected qsynth on the left to System on the right.

But still no MIDI sound except from the one chord each time I click play. (actually it does fade out, I hear now, only the tone of some instruments, like organ, stays there until I stop it)

folderol, there's no the-rose-garden.rg in File->Open, but I've tried at least 5-6 different MIDI files, and also saved some as .rg files and reloaded them, but it makes no difference.

In the Transport windows, when playing, under "In" it says "No events", and under "Out" it shows all the
many notes and events. I guess that is as it should be?

My version of Qsynth is also 0.3.8. I installed it via Mint's software manager. It seems it doesn't have FluidR3_GM with it anymore.

By "the Qsynth box" do you mean this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-new9vc0ZngU/V ... synth2.png

I see no grey dot there?

Thanks for the info about starting and stopping jackd, that can save me from later confusion

Another little thing: I have version 13.06 of Rosegarden, and it says 15.10 is available (though it's less than a week ago I installed it from the repository!). Should I just reinstall it via a terminal to get the updated version, or from the website? Linux is still new to me.

Ok, so Rosegarden thinks it's sending data. That's good.

Umm. I can see the grey dot in your screengrab - bottom left between the green + and the word Qsynth1

The fact that this is not flashing green means the two are not talking to each other for some reason.
With everything set up and (supposedly) running, on Qjackctl open the Connect window an look at the ALSA tab. You should see a line between rosegarden on the left and FLUID Synth on the right. If it's not there (and you're sure Rosegarden claims to route to it), try making the connection manually.

If that fails, install vkeybd (it should be available on all distros) and try connecting that to Qsynth via Qjackctl. Vkeybd is so primitive it has no auto connect stuff to get in the way and is 100% reliable.

Also, to check on Rosegarden without Qsynth run QMidiRoute - If you don't have it install it now! It's invaluable for this sort of thing. Don't change any settings, just start up Rosegarden afterwards. With no other MIDI destinations available Rosegarden should grab this and you should immediately see a string of CCs. When you play a track all the notes should be listed too.

V15 of Rosegarden is significantly better than V13. I don't know what distro you're on, but according to the Rosegarden website only Arch linux seems to have it. I always compile from source, but don't recommend that if you're not familiar with doing it. It's a *big* program with lots of dependencies.

Oh THAT dot, ok

In QjackCtl, the line between rosegarden on the left and FLUID Synth on the right is already there.

I've installed vkeybd and it's also connected to Qsynth now. I've tried running Rosegarden with QmidiRoute (which I started before RG) instead of Qsynth, but in this case there's no MIDI sound at all. To begin with QmidiRoute wasn't checked in "Manage MIDI devices" (it had gone back to "[No port]" again), but even after checking it there's no MIDI sound.

Also, in Instrument parameters, the channel goes back to "auto" everytime I start RG or open a file.

Ok, I'm on Mint MATE Rebecca 17.1, so probably better stick to V13

The strange thing is that (with Qsynth) I actually DO have MIDI sound, but only at the moment I click play. So the signal really gets through, it just disappears again in a second. Weird

Maybe I should try another sequencer than RG, but at first I tried MusE and had the same problem. So I wonder if it's a soundcard issue..

OK, I think we are getting closer. So to be sure, with Vkeybd if you play the keys you can get sound from qsynth and you see the activity light flash? Correct?

With Rosegarden connected to QmidiRoute, you won't get sound, but you should see CCs and notes being listed in its window. Are you?

Rosegarden resetting to auto all the time is disturbing. I've never seen that! my best guess is a screwed up configuration file.

Mister Mint wrote:
The strange thing is that (with Qsynth) I actually DO have MIDI sound, but only at the moment I click play. So the signal really gets through, it just disappears again in a second. Weird

Maybe I should try another sequencer than RG, but at first I tried MusE and had the same problem. So I wonder if it's a soundcard issue..

To be clear, when I mentioned 'M Audio-xyz', I was referring to your using whatever the M Audio listing qjackctl presents
when clicking the widgets by the Input Device and Output device on the setup panel.

The card will present two separate entries to qjackctl, in my system, they are worded

hw:M2496,0
hw:M2496

But different versions of qjackctl, or different card revisions may list slightly different naming.

Your card's kernel module is snd_ice1712 Run the command lsmod and you should see it a few times in the output listing.
If it is absent, run the command

sudo modprobe snd_ice1712

Try both of the m audio devices. Also, install amsynth and start it with the command amsynth
It should work when connected as mentioned above . I'll edit my earlier post.
Cheers

folderol wrote:So to be sure, with Vkeybd if you play the keys you can get sound from qsynth and you see the activity light flash? Correct?

Nether. No sound and no activity light flash.

folderol wrote: With Rosegarden connected to QmidiRoute, you won't get sound, but you should see CCs and notes being listed in its window. Are you?

Yes, I don't know what CC stands for, but in the QmidiRoute "Event log" window, I see all the notes and events that are played.

folderol wrote:Rosegarden resetting to auto all the time is disturbing. I've never seen that! my best guess is a screwed up configuration file.

Rosegarden never promised me a rose garden, but indeed this garden has its thorns!

glowrak guy wrote:To be clear, when I mentioned 'M Audio-xyz', I was referring to your using whatever the M Audio listing qjackctl presents
when clicking the widgets by the Input Device and Output device on the setup panel.

I understood what you meant by 'M Audio-xyz', I just copy-pasted part of your sentence and forgot to change the xyz

In my QjackCtl setup the only MIDI in and MIDI out options are "hw:M2496", "hw:0", and some others, there's no "hw:M2496,0", but I guess "hw:M2496" and "hw:M2496,0" are the same?

I ran the lsmod command:

tl@tl-P5Q-SE ~ $ lsmod
Module Size Used by
snd_seq_dummy 12686 0
bnep 18895 2
rfcomm 53664 0
bluetooth 342208 10 bnep,rfcomm
snd_hda_codec_realtek 55163 1
snd_ice1712 64763 4
snd_cs8427 13938 1 snd_ice1712
snd_ice17xx_ak4xxx 13163 1 snd_ice1712
snd_ak4xxx_adda 18303 2 snd_ice1712,snd_ice17xx_ak4xxx
snd_hda_intel 42730 2
snd_i2c 13827 2 snd_ice1712,snd_cs8427
snd_mpu401_uart 13865 1 snd_ice1712
snd_hda_codec 164067 2 snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_hda_intel
snd_ac97_codec 105709 1 snd_ice1712
snd_hwdep 13272 1 snd_hda_codec
ac97_bus 12642 1 snd_ac97_codec
snd_seq_midi 13132 0
snd_seq_midi_event 14475 1 snd_seq_midi
snd_rawmidi 25135 2 snd_mpu401_uart,snd_seq_midi
snd_pcm 85501 6 snd_ice1712,snd_ac97_codec,snd_hda_codec,snd_hda_intel
coretemp 13195 0
dm_multipath 22402 0
snd_seq 55383 8 snd_seq_midi_event,snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_midi
scsi_dh 14458 1 dm_multipath
serio_raw 13230 0
snd_seq_device 14137 4 snd_seq,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_midi
snd_page_alloc 14230 2 snd_pcm,snd_hda_intel
snd_timer 28584 2 snd_pcm,snd_seq
lpc_ich 16864 0
snd 60939 30 snd_ice1712,snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_ac97_codec,snd_hwdep,snd_timer,snd_i2c,snd_pcm,snd_seq,snd_rawmidi,snd_hda_codec,snd_ak4xxx_adda,snd_hda_intel,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_seq_device,snd_seq_dummy,snd_cs8427,snd_seq_midi
asus_atk0110 18201 0
parport_pc 31981 0
mac_hid 13037 0
ppdev 17391 0
soundcore 12600 1 snd
lp 13299 0
parport 40836 3 lp,ppdev,parport_pc
dm_mirror 21756 0
dm_region_hash 20121 1 dm_mirror
dm_log 18072 2 dm_region_hash,dm_mirror
pata_acpi 12886 0
nouveau 969577 2
psmouse 91329 0
mxm_wmi 12893 1 nouveau
wmi 18673 2 mxm_wmi,nouveau
video 18903 1 nouveau
atl1e 32995 0
i2c_algo_bit 13197 1 nouveau
pata_marvell 12774 0
ttm 72725 1 nouveau
drm_kms_helper 48868 1 nouveau
floppy 55416 0
drm 244037 4 ttm,drm_kms_helper,nouveau

glowrak guy wrote:Try both of the m audio devices. Also, install amsynth...

This was only if "snd_ice1712" was absent, right?

OK, so Rosegarden is definitely sending messages and Qsynth is definitely not listening to anything.

Forget Qsynth for the moment. Try running a softsynth, either Yoshimi or ZynAddSubFX (I'm not going to get into arguments about which one). These *always* at least give to a basic sinewave sound on channel 1.

Load this first, then Rosegarden. Rosegarden will pick it up straight away, but double check both audio and ALSA MIDI connections are being made in Qjackctl

You should see the VU bar along the bottom of the synth responding to any notes Rosegarden sends and should hear audio (from at least that channel). This will prove beyond doubt that MIDI is being managed, and the Audio setup in jack is working.

If you get neither sound nor VU activity, Click in the synth's Vkeyboard button and try poking a few notes.

If you get nice blue VU bars but no sound, then there is a problem with the sound connections somewhere.

PS.
CC stands for 'continuous controller' and these are the MIDI control signals sent by things like volume, pan etc.

Mister Mint wrote: In my QjackCtl setup the only MIDI in and MIDI out options are "hw:M2496", "hw:0", and some others, there's no "hw:M2496,0", but I guess "hw:M2496" and "hw:M2496,0" are the same?

I ran the lsmod command:

snd_ice1712 64763 4

This was only if "snd_ice1712" was absent, right?

Your mAudio kernel module is there, and used by the other modules, as expected.

(the MAudio linux mixer is mudita24 or envy24control, in the repo, and it's volume control
is on the 'Analog Volume' tab, which may be muted by default.)

The different items in qjackctl are different, and matter.
So choose the same one for both input and output, in each separate test, and run a
standalone (non-plugin) softsynth.
I mentioned amsynth, because it has standalone, dssi, lv2 and vst versions,
but folderol's suggestion of zynaddsubfx or yoshimi is a also great choice.
(in part due to his fine contributions over the years!)

So type the name yoshimi, or zynaddsubfx, or amsynth in a terminal,
the synth gui should appear, then make connections in qjackctl,
and you should be in business.

If not, you really need to do a fresh install,
or an alternate install like avlinux, to an external usb hard-disk,
or test avlinux dvd in a live session.
Brasero or k3b can burn the avlinux .iso image to a dvd.
Cheers

Thank you both.

Ok, I installed Yoshimi, loaded it, then Rosegarden, and made the connections in QjackCtl. When playing a MIDI file now in RG (after "fixing" the channel, checking the 'Bank', and re-setting the MIDI in- and outputs, as always) there's still no sound, and also no activity at Yoshimi's VU bar, but at least when clicking Yoshimi's virtual keyboard there's both sound and VU activity. But that's not MIDI, as I understand it?

Under Qjackctl > Connections > MIDI, only Yoshimi is shown, but I guess that's how it should be...

The 'Analog volume' tab of Mudita24 is not muted. (It was to begin with, but I had turned it up long before I installed RG, Qsynth, etc)

Btw, AFAIR I installed QjackCtl after RG, I guess that okay..

Yes, unless an obvious solution pops up, I probably might as well try avlinux..

OK, that's progress.
You've now proved that that jack and your sound system is alright.
Something I forgot is that by default Yoshimi starts with jack MIDI while Rosegarden is alsa MIDI only. If it's not too much trouble you can launch yoshimi from a terminal window with "yoshimi -a -K", that will set it for alsa MIDI and auto-connect the audio in jack.

However, I think we've pretty much zeroed in on Qsynth being the problem for your original requirements. It is somehow not correctly recognising incoming MIDI messages.

It might be worth un-installing it, and re-installing it again. If you're using Synaptic, select 'Mark for complete removal'. This should also remove any borked config files that might exist.

Thank you, I first tried with "yoshimi -a -K" but got this message:

tl@tl-P5Q-SE ~ $ yoshimi -a -K
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server request channel
jack server is not running or cannot be started
Failed jack_client_open(), status: 11
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server request channel
jack server is not running or cannot be started
Failed jack_client_open(), status: 11
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server request channel
jack server is not running or cannot be started
Failed jack_client_open(), status: 11
Failed to open jack client, trying again
Failed to open jack client, trying again
Failed to open jack client on server default
Error, failed to connect to jack server
Failed to open MusicClient
Yoshimi stages a strategic retreat

Then I did a complete removal of Qsynth in Synaptic and re-installed it from the respository. After launching it I launched RG, but nothing has changed. Then I opened Yoshimi to see if I could set it for alsa MIDI there, but under Settings it just says "Alsa Midi device: Default". I tried with the command again, but got this:

tl@tl-P5Q-SE ~ $ yoshimi -a -K
Cannot lock down 82274202 byte memory area (Cannot allocate memory)
terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::logic_error'
what(): basic_string::_S_construct null not valid
Afbrudt (SIGABRT)

which is chinese to me
("Afbrudt" means "aborted")

There is something seriously screwy going on here
I assume you did run Qjackctl before Yoshimi on these last tests?
Also, I take it you are logging in as a normal user, not as root. As well as being risky, root access can mess about with some systems expecting normal user access.

I'm afraid I'm running out of ideas. It's beginning to look like Nuke & Restart

Yes, Qjackctl was running before Yoshimi, and I also checked the connections were right.
Also, I'm logged in as normal user. Only when I change settings in the system, install new programs, etc, it's as "superuser".
I could imagine MATE has some limitations that might cause the problems, its file manager (Caja) isn't very good neither. So soon I'll install AV Linux and see if that helps (hope a DVD-RW will be okay). If not, it's probably my soundcard that's screwed up I'll let you know.

Your output indicates a possible config flaw. There is a text file located at

/etc/security/limits.conf

It should -conclude- with these lines:

@audio hard rtprio 99
@audio hard memlock unlimited
@audio hard nice -19

# End of file

----------------------------------------------
And another text file, configured automatically by the system, is located nearby at

/etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf

It should -consist- of only these 3 lines:

@audio - rtprio 99
@audio - memlock unlimited
@audio - nice -19

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: the texts above will be spaced differently in this post,
than what you'll see as you edit the files (if needed) in your computer.
I always follow the original spacing, for luck.

In addition, on the qjackctl front panel, 'realtime' should be ticked.
And in the Advanced tab, in the middle, Priority should be between
70 and 89, for best "realtime" audio performance. The high priority
helps reduce contamination of audio signals by cpu hogging apps
with lower priorities. I've always used 89.

Run the command groups

I have Mint 17, and my output reads me adm dialout cdrom sudo audio dip plugdev lpadmin sambashare

If 'audio' is not in the list, you'll need to fix that, follow the steps here:

http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-linu ... -to-group/

Reboot, and test with amsynth.
Cheers