Hi from jacklab.org

[MattKingUSA]

Ser gut, danke und I agree with thorgal.

PS. Optik Boom!

[zettberlin]

So stop trolling if that was your intention.

Even though I disagree with some of Michaels opinions also, I can assure you that he is absolutely no troll.
He has spend a lot of work helping to promote progress in Linux audio. His JAD-project is essential today to make distributors aware that there is something like music-production on Linux and it draws the attention of musicians to Linux in a way neither CCRMA nor DEMUDI ever had managed.
I wonder if there would be a well-supported Ubuntu Studio today, if Jacklab would not have been there before. So everybody could see: "Ah - there is indeed a mainstream distro that has a derivative that seriously aims for music production. Must we not have the same?".

As he in fact does something to make Linux a system for music-production, he can afford to be somewhat controversal I might say.

So please hit his statements if you disagree but dont hit the person.


BTW: some sophisticated flaming from time to time is often more productive then dull sunshinepolitics all the way

[metasymbol]

Thank you, zettberlin.

Last year I made a amateurish video from the Linux Audio Conference 2007 in Berlin: This was the "unplugged live coding session" at the end of the LAC. the video is bad cutted, but the soundtrack is uncutted -you can hear the sound of Linux coders, hackin some csound etc. btw: some of them using mac os x. Isn't it funny?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OsT0mat1cpg

btw: zettberlin has made a good talk at the LAC 2008:

http://lac2008.khm.de/2008-02-29/2008-0 ... oncept.ogv

[thorgal]

So please hit his statements if you disagree but dont hit the person.

BTW: some sophisticated flaming from time to time is often more productive then dull sunshinepolitics all the way

Maybe I misunderstand the concept of this forum, I at least don't understand these statements either. If I were on a forum talking about linux development, how to get linux to compete with alternatives, etc, I would understand all this, but here, it sounds like noise. I thought that this forum was about ppl who took for granted that they create their music with linux, not necessarily in an exclusive way either, they could do that together with a windows or mac box among other things, e.g. I make music with instruments as well, there's no OS in there and I am not complaining that I had to pay something to own these instruments, made according to some industry standards. So maybe the forum admin could open a subforum where ppl can talk about linux vs others, how to improve linux. etc. Then we can argue all day about the pros and cons. This is no "dull sunshinepolitics", this is OOT. OK, I've spent enough time on this thread, welcome to this forum.

[zettberlin]

Maybe I misunderstand the concept of this forum, I at least don't understand these statements either. If I were on a forum talking about linux development, how to get linux to compete with alternatives, etc, I would understand all this,

You mean, this thread has nothing to do with this specific part of the forum? Aye! This I agree.

So maybe the forum admin could open a subforum where ppl can talk about linux vs others, how to improve linux. etc.

This could be the off-topic section then.
Would have been appropriate to close and move this thread there some 20 posts before

[schivmeister]

Hey hey now..let's get back to the topic - introduction.

Hospitality vs Hostility

And it seems I've missed the magic word == welcome!

[thorgal]

welcome to this forum.

you read too fast

[Roger]

Your musical skills are important for the developers, because the combo "musician and developer" is rare.

I find that people who are more than casually interested in computers are often interested in music as well!

[josander]

Hi Michael,

I will just express my gratitude for what you're doing: Thank you very much!

It's very important to look at the user's point of vue and have the ability to see the big picture and realities in order to make Linux more popular for music making.

You are one of this people that can that, and I'm very glad that you are doing what you're doing.

Thanks,

Jostein

[alex stone]

I've just caught up with this, but i'd certainly support Michael's efforts, and he's definitely no troll. His work with Wineasio and Jad has given many a new lease of life, and increased enjoyment and ease of use in our Linux Audio world.

I'm not sure the 'one app does all' is a good thing. Those of us who are late starters to Linux are, to a certain extent conditioned to accept this paradigm, but it doesn't make it better. As a classical composer i was always hitting the wall with insufficient ports, etc in the win and mac worlds. I don't get that with linux, because of Jack, for instance, and the concept of routing multiple specialist apps has grown on me, in a thoroughly positive way.

Michael makes a good point here too, about maturity. Linux audio is coming on fast, but there's still spots here and there that need a dose of that maturity too. That's a fair comment, and the little i know of Michael, would be offered without any ill feeling or angst.

I'd agree with the need for progess in the development of a linux based plugin model. I've been experimenting with LV2, and although there are relatively few at the moment, i think this model is a good one, and has that potential. There's a lot of work being done with LV2, and recent experiments with the Calf plugins, for example, have proved entirely successful. As with any app, or utility, evolution is neccessary, and through DSSI, to Ladspa, onto LV2, maybe an entirely natural phenomenon that needs to shake the bugs out in the process, which is the case for any maturing code model. I admit here it would be good to see LV2 as a 'standard' linux plugin, on which we can rely, to the same extent as win users do with VST, or Mac with AU. Time will tell.

If there was one utility that might improve the linux multi app acceptance level among new linux users, it could be a simple GUI that starts apps selected by the user. Like a macro in effect, in which the user adds or removes apps (and templates), shuffles the order of startup, with an automatic pause function, that allows one app to finish startup (including any desired template), before moving to the next.

I do this now with a startup script, and it all works fine, but i'm stupid enough to have no fear of using a terminal, or learning a bit of bash. some users might be more nervous about this, and maybe hesistant at trying.


So our GUI based app (called Starters?) would simply be a frontend for a bash script, but visually simplify the process of multi app use for those who are more comfortable with visuals. (And in the gui, there could be drop down lists of apps currently installed on the computer.)

It's simple things like this that could make the transition and daily use a bit easier for some.

I'm a full time linux user composing predominately classically based music for self, ads, docs, etc..
My setup is native linux (no VSTs at all), for both 32 and 64bit. I had to learn quite a bit to have the setup i wanted, but conversely, i now have very few workarounds for the daily grind, and certainly less than i ever did with win or mac.

Michael's been honest and non combative in his appraisal, and that's a better view for a shared linux evolution, than os wars, or staying silent for fear of upsetting the cart. We have no commercial paranoia to drive a wall of silence, so we're lucky in that regard. (imho)

I can cheerfully add myself to the many users for whom Dave Phillips is completely at fault, getting us involved as he has in the Linux community. Thanks Dave, and Michael, for your ongoing efforts in bringing an ever increasing maturity to the apps we use, and continuing to fire the enthusiasm of many new, and not so new, linux users.

Alex Stone.