Should KXStudio repos move to Debian?

[DoosC]

Before voting, I'd like to make sure about some things.

In good things you said "1. Support for all Debian-based distros" and in bad things you said "2. No ready-to-go commercial drivers support.".
But if I understand you well it would be in a separate debian repo equivalent to a PPA, so it could be installed on ubuntu. Am I right ? If yes how should I worry about how would it be different from the current ubuntu based KXStudio ?

I mean whatever the base (deb, rpm, etc), whatever the distro name (ubuntu, thingamabob, bestdistro, nooblinux, etc) I currently go for ubuntu because of how easy it is to install / maintain / use / works out of the box / etc. If you tell me I'll still be able to have all the latest audio softwares I have now on the next ubuntu just by a slightly different way (from a user perspective) I wouldn't see why I would vote no.
On the other hand, if not, I would worry a little bit more

[GMaq]

Hi,

Quick note to clarify... AV Linux and many other direct Debian-based distros use 'SGFXI' a 3rd party script to automatically download and install proprietary nVidia and ATi Video drivers, indeed this is not as easy as Ubuntu but in most cases it works very well and the SGFXI script is VERY well maintained by it's developer with quick responses to issues that arise. Although the script needs to be run outside of X in AV Linux we have simply have it as a GRUB option and for most users they select it one-time as a boot option and it is all taken care of and the drivers are installed. If KXStudio goes to Debian I would be more than happy to share everything we have with falkTX to make Video Driver installs easier. I don't think this should be seen as a major obstacle. We already also have a Debian-friendly Kernel Repository with Audio Optimized Kernels (including optional RT builds) and although I don't want to speak out of turn for Trulan Martin the AV Linux kernel maintainer I'm sure as long as he is doing AV Linux kernels KXStudio users would be more than welcome to use them as well...

And now back to the poll...

[autostatic]

Voted yes. KXStudio already uses quite some source packages from http://pkg-multimedia.alioth.debian.org/git-repos.php and Debian sid. Besides, packaging for Debian is identical to packaging for Ubuntu. The only drawback is indeed the public webspace part but maybe we could check http://www.debian.org/devel/buildd/.

[skavar]

It should be noted that the debian repositories also provide proprietry drivers in their non-free sections. For example, the testing and experimental repositories have the ATI video card driver package fglrx 13.4-2 which is an april release. I'm guessing the SGFXI script downloads and builds the most recent releases.

[autostatic]

But I think that service is only for official packages or developers.

You can build your own, Raspbian (Debian Wheezy based distro for Raspberry Pi) uses its own buildd for example.

[AnthonyCFox]

A lot of users have voted but left no comments, your opinion is important people!

Yea, Debian! Woo-hoo!!

I've been a fan of CrunchBang for a long time, so I'll probably see if I can build my own CrunchBang Studio. That'll be fun.

I wonder if I can get tabbed windows with Compiz in Openbox?

[tux99]

Wouldn't it make most sense for you two (GMaq and FalkTX) to merge KXStudio and AVLinux?

Call the merged distro AVStudio and everyone will benefit from the fact that now two people are working together rather than each doing their own spin-off of Debian...

[DoosC]

If you're going to use Ubuntu anyway, then graphics or other drivers is not an issue for you since Ubuntu takes take of that nicely.
The move to debian means Ubuntu is still compatible in most, if not all, packaging.
Audio software usually doesn't have fancy dependencies, and those that do can always use static builds.

I guess I would. Anyway I use Kubuntu + KXStudio PPAs and Kubuntu has less evil stuff than pure Ubuntu.
I guess I would then use Kubuntu + KXStudio Debian Repos which sounds fairly equivalent from a user perspective.
So I'm going for yes too if that can help to spread all the goodness to other Debian based distros too.

Edit : I voted yes but if it doesn't move to Debian, I am happy too

[GMaq]

Wouldn't it make most sense for you two (GMaq and FalkTX) to merge KXStudio and AVLinux?

Call the merged distro AVStudio and everyone will benefit from the fact that now two people are working together rather than each doing their own spin-off of Debian...

From the outside looking in this is absolutely a very sensible idea, however as usual the devil is in the details and there are a LOT of detailed differences, for instance AV Linux is very focused on older hardware and is still 32bit only (although obviously 64bit will have to be reckoned with in potential future versions) also I build ISO's with Remastersys which make sharing an exact system with very detailed tweaks easy and KXStudio ISO's are built from combining repository packages into a customized ISO, this sounds similar but in practice the approach is quite different. That being said there is also much more potential for a lot more sharing of resources which even if the projects aren't merged both will benefit without a doubt.

KXStudio repos + KDE live-dvd can continue to exist, and AVLinux with customized LXDE live-dvd too.

@GMaq: Is this correct?

Are you kidding! Of course! No one Desktop presentation will make everyone happy so I think a full-featured KDE and a light LXDE are 2 great options for potential users and cover a good spectrum of user preferences.

[GMaq]

It should be noted that the debian repositories also provide proprietry drivers in their non-free sections. For example, the testing and experimental repositories have the ATI video card driver package fglrx 13.4-2 which is an april release. I'm guessing the SGFXI script downloads and builds the most recent releases.

Good point, however I think those packages only work if you use stock Debian Kernels (which may be an option anyway). If I'm not mistaken custom Kernels will require outside help like SGFXI to get proprietary drivers working..

[anko]

voted for change to debian base.

_please_ do this. canonical is proving increasingly unreliable and is increasing no longer focussed the wider open source / free software community that kxstudio aims to be fully a part of.

the only sensible long term solution is to move to the upstream of _all_ debian based distributions, debian itself.

the minor downsides can all be ameliorated and the long term upsides are extremely worthwhile.

this is by far the mosrt sensible option for a stable future path for kxstudio.

usual imho disclaimers apply

e.

[GraysonPeddie]

If you are moving KXStudio to Debian, could this work with a future version of Ubuntu, such as 13.10? I'm loving Ubuntu so much due to using HUD panel without using a mouse to look through the menus since not all of the commands have shortcut keys.

[tux99]

AVLinux and KXStudio work in different ways. I believe both can co-exist peacefully and with mutual help.
On on side, KXStudio can provide debian repos for updated packages (AVLinux is more of a static live-dvd thing). This makes possible for AVLinux users to use KXStudio repos in the future.
AVLinux can then provide expertise of its Debian experience to KXStudio, like the situation with GPU drivers.

KXStudio repos + KDE live-dvd can continue to exist, and AVLinux with customized LXDE live-dvd too.

@GMaq: Is this correct?

Ok I see the point in keeping two different ISOs but you could work of a shared repo, I mean surely each of you packaging up the same applications for the same distro (Debian) is duplicated effort that can be avoided?
I mean what's the point in both of you spending time packaging the latest LMMS or the latest Ardour?

While I can't collaborate with you as my focus is on Centos/RHEL/SL which is RPM based, therefore very different to Debian, I do have a VPS that I use for my AV focussed Centos/RHEL/SL repo ( http://pkgrepo.linuxtech.net/el6/ ) which still has plenty space and unused bandwidth.
If you need space for your repo we could share this VPS, as long as bandwidth and disk space requirements are enough for what you need. PM me if you are interested in this.

[tux99]

I've always wondered how this sort of thing works. Are there companies that rent such VMs/services?
I honestly know very little about this or any server/hosting in general...

Yes, I use Linode, see http://www.linode.com/ .

[stanlea]

I think that Ubuntu has now more and more cons than pros. Targeting a wider audience makes it too sophisticated for the needs of music production, and it's hard to clean it in order to keep only the needed part. If workarounds exist for Debian for such things as PPAs, and what makes ubuntu easy to use for certain tasks, then going to debian looks more safe than trying to adapt KXstudio to the evolutions uf Ubuntu.