Move KXStudio to ArchLinux?

[Capoeira]

hm, why do you say that?

Personal experience.

In my experience, an Arch based Audio-Distro will be the most tweaked for the purpose ever

[autostatic]

Have I ever said that Ubuntu can be most tweaked ever for Linux audio?

[Alwaysanewb]

Yeah you can put it on arch linux but then your only going to have the 30 people that frequent this forum using kxstudio and everyone else will be using something else with ubuntu or dream studio.

[Tarrasque]

Yeah you can put it on arch linux but then your only going to have the 30 people that frequent this forum using kxstudio and everyone else will be using something else with ubuntu or dream studio.

That's exactly my fear...

[nils]

I am already using Archlinux for audio. One of the better decisions of my life.
There is already an active pro-audio archlinux community so KXStudio would be a welcome force since achievements on both sides can be shared.

If falk becomes a trusted user in Arch he can even use the main repository for binary packages. Since Arch is bleeding edge nobody would complain about frequent updates and a ton of new packages. On the contrary...

[Tarrasque]

Yeah you can put it on arch linux but then your only going to have the 30 people that frequent this forum using kxstudio and everyone else will be using something else with ubuntu or dream studio.

I doubt dream studio would exist without KXStudio, but that's not the point.

The issue here is that Canonical has set a bad precedent of actions.
We may be fine somtime later, and then 1 random day another bomb comes forward that shakes the community.
Canonical has already stated that it develops things in closed-doors and we have proof of it.
If for example Kubuntu decides to move somewhere else, I'd be screwed with KXStudio...

Then why not target Mint/MATE or MINT/Cinnamon? Or just Debian, so every derivative can benefit?

Not polemic, just genuinely curious.

[Thad E Ginathom]

...What changes with a possible Arch release is that >= 13.04 won't get supported.

Too sudden. 04/2013 is only a couple of weeks away

[Thad E Ginathom]

Point taken.

13.04 is not a problem with me, I'm not a frequent upgrader anyway, and do not intend to use 13.04. In fact it would be one of my Ubuntu complaints that these new versions require changes all the time. But I only got into Linux a couple of years ago, maybe the other distros do too? I'd still be happy with 11.04. Or even 10.04 --- which wouldn't require me to find an alternative desktop.

[Tarrasque]

I'm afraid switching to Arch will be the nail in KXstudio coffin.

Which is a real pity. Cadence and friends are great tools. I mean, I can understand and respect your motivations.

But switching to distros nobody uses (read: every distro except Ubuntu based ones), when Linux musicians are already less than you count on a hand, it's shooting yourself in the foot.

I may be wrong, but when you're talking about making music, most people want just to plug and play (I sure do).

The biggest asset of KXstudio is just that. When the mood stroke me, I can just fire up Cadence, Ardour, Hydrogen and record my guitar. No reboot needed.

I've used a lot of music oriented distributions in the last years. I've seen them all fail and close up shop, or just struggle without getting any significant number of users. Studio to go! Dynebolic. Demudi. Jacklab.

The problem is that all of them struggled (for philosophical or other reasons) because they wanted to use that DE or that other, base on that distro or that other, when the typical non geek musician just want to have a reasonably good DAW, working VSTs and play!

KXstudio, being essentially repositories you could add to your Ubuntu distro, is perfect.

[raboof]

So lately I've been thinking of moving the KXStudio project into ArchLinux. I would like to know your opinions on this.

I've been considering switching from Debian to Arch recently: I love Debian and have happily used it for about 10 years, but the fact that even testing/unstable lag behind in package versions (esp. during freeze time, which can last long) drove me to look elsewhere.

Arch seemed like an obvious choice, so I set out to install it. The documentation was a bit confusing to navigate, so I brought that up on IRC to see how they'd react to feedback/contributions. Granted, my feedback might have been rather trivial, but the general unfriendlyness that I was greeted with was quite off-putting.

Anyway, I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt, prepared the installation media and booted into them. I was greeted with a text-mode root prompt. I mean, seriously? In 2013?

Perhaps I should give Fedora a go.

(I didn't vote as I'm probably not a typical KXStudio user, but wanted to share my recent experience anyway)

[male]

Bear with me on this...

Canonical have been really stupid lately. Dropping bombs like MIR and ignoring all current work done so far. That's actually not the real issue - the issue is that all of it was done in closed doors...
This is not the first time such thing has happened, and I'm afraid of whatever comes next...

So lately I've been thinking of moving the KXStudio project into ArchLinux.

Note though, that a 12.04.2 release will still happen. It's currently pending on Carla, Cadence v1.0, new DISTRHO release and Ardour3. It will most likely still happen this month.
The current PPAs as-is won't go away, so current users will not lose anything.

If the change for ArchLinux happens, there won't be many differences user-wide.
KDE 4.10 would be used in a live-dvd for install.
Binary repos available, and don't forget AUR!


I would like to know your opinions on this.
This is just a poll, nothing is being done as of yet!
(I will still finish Carla and implement the requested Cadence features as planned)

What's wrong with just moving to Debian?

[autostatic]

Before I start any serious 13.04 work (and continued support), I need to know for sure it's worth it.

Just support what KXStudio is already supporting and for new releases, only support LTS releases. If people need packages for 13.04 or 13.10 they can always backport or package stuff themselves. You can't cater to everyone. And you really need to sit back for a second and consider all the projects you're working on and start prioritizing things though you probably gave it some thought already. If I were you I'd focus on further developing your software, not only because you can possibly monetize this kind of skill in the future but also because the stuff you're working on is way more disruptive than maintaining package repositories for some Ubuntu release.

[autostatic]

In short, if I really have to leave Ubuntu, ArchLinux sounds much more appealing than Debian.

It sounds more appealing but is it really more appealing? You'll have to deal with a different packaging system, with AUR which is a great initiative but not embraced by other distros for a good reason and last but surely not least, with a bleeding edge distro that could break with every single update. I for one would not recommend using such a distro for serious music production to ordinary users. And there are quite some ordinary users using KXStudio.

[autostatic]

I've been considering switching from Debian to Arch recently: I love Debian and have happily used it for about 10 years, but the fact that even testing/unstable lag behind in package versions (esp. during freeze time, which can last long) drove me to look elsewhere.

And that's why we need KXStudio on Debian

Arch seemed like an obvious choice, so I set out to install it. The documentation was a bit confusing to navigate, so I brought that up on IRC to see how they'd react to feedback/contributions. Granted, my feedback might have been rather trivial, but the general unfriendlyness that I was greeted with was quite off-putting.

I recall having critisized Arch mildly somewhere and after that I've received a couple of personal emails defending the criticism I displayed. I found this very disturbing. Coupled with my negative experience with Arch itself I decided to purge all my Arch installs.

[StudioDave]

In short, if I really have to leave Ubuntu, ArchLinux sounds much more appealing than Debian.

For many users it seems that stable Debian doesn't keep up well enough, and a current Arch stays too far out on the edge. Ubuntu has provided a satisfactory middle way, allowing overlays like Ubuntu Studio and KXStudio to exist and stay current on a modern distribution with a sane policy of updates and upgrades.

Tarrasque makes some very good points. IMO Ubuntu is a good first Linux experience for many Windows users, and its may be worth noting that Ubuntu is typically the officially supported Linux distro in products such as Guitar Pro, Pianoteq, and Bitwig.

I'm not sure there's any reason to panic if KXStudio no longer supports Ubuntu. The official repos include pretty much everything you need for a decent audio production system, and falkTX's tools are open-source, i.e. available for further development by others.

Unfortunately, what I like about Arch is what a newcomer to Linux dreads. System configuration often requires degrees of attention not typical for an Ubuntu user (and totally alienating to someone coming from Windows). Given that every Arch system is a personalized system, can you rely on a sufficient base system across such a variety of installations ?

I may have missed it if discussed: Have you considered Fedora and other distros ?

I don't want to discourage a possible move to Arch. I understand the recent frustrations with Ubuntu, and Arch does offer a powerful alternative. It'll be interesting to see how you decide on this one.

Best,

dp