LinuxMusicians

Not to start a flame war or anything but what distro would you recommend to somebody that's 80% music nerd, 20% Linux nerd? I tried UbuntuStudio 12.xx, Dream Studio, KXStudio (both full install and using repos on top of Ubuntu), and most recently I'm using LinuxMint 14. I primarily use Ardour and sometimes Qtractor, Hydrogen, Guitarix, CALF Plugins, and Addictive Drums and AmpliTube 3 thru dssi-vst, and I have my workflow set up, I understand music and signal chains and that, I understand how JACK works, or at least how its supposed to, but the problem is I'm getting hundreds of xruns in Ardour with 128 frames and 2 buffers with my Lexicon Alpha USB interface. I increase the frames to 1024 sometimes and the xruns go way down, but I still cant get through a 3 minute song without at least one. I'm on a quad core 2.4 ghz/4gigs of RAM laptop. Ive tried 44.1khz, 48khz, 16 bit, 24 bit, 32 bit, any number of buffers and any number of frams from 128 (freezes the system usually) to 2048 (latency far too high to record guitars). I'm rather certain that JACK isn't running in RT and that's causing all the xruns. Anyway, I hear AVLinux has JACK set up for RT right out of the box. Should I bail on Mint and just run AVLinux or is there something I can do to fix Mint, assuming its less steps than downloading and burning the AVLinux ISO.

PS, also getting the same amount of xruns using my on board janky intel HDA not just the USB interface.

Sounds like you've got a pretty good hold on trying them all. I would guess if you're getting the same amount of xruns from your onboard as your Lexicon(I also have a Lexicon, Omega, but same driver with few issues), then a driver for something else on your system(or some stray process) is causing your xruns. Give AV Linux a try, but I would venture to guess it won't solve all of your xrun issues. I personally use Mint (13, cause it's the most stable) with kxstudio repos. I've tried many if not all other linux studio choices, and I keep coming back to this one, because it works the best for me.

Yeah I really like Mint and I use the KXstudio repos to pick a package or two, wineasio and calf usually. So what are your jack settings like for your interface and do you have xrun issues? Am I on the right trail about this realtime stuff? I'm sorry if this is all elementary but I'm much more of a music guy and less of a computer guy.

Sample rate makes little difference in xruns from my experience(Will make a difference in latency.) Though I'm usually at 44.1(If I'm going 88.2 I use my firewire interface.) 90% of the time my buffer size is set to 1024 for safety. For mixdown, latency is only as bad as the engineer mixing it. I usually get stray xruns that pop up when I launch a program or if a program crashes. Other than that, I get random xruns through a session. On average, if I work for 3 hours, I might get 6 REAL xruns. Many xruns you see popping up are "phantom xruns", In otherwords something that looks like an xrun to the system, but doesn't necessarily produce any problems with your audio. The only time xruns are really bad is when you are recording a source, or when you're doing a final mixdown(and then usually only when you're doing a real-time export.) Other than that, xruns are annoying, but not really a problem, though if you're getting constant xruns it's a good idea to try and trace them down. Randomly for no apparently good reason I'll have xruns pile up in seconds without having any user opened program launched, but it's not often and a restart fixes it.

You said you've use the kxstudio repos to pick a package or two. Have you done the actual upgrade to the point of 'sudo apt-get install kxstudio-desktop-base'? And then added the other packages? If you have not follow this guide:http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9666

If you only want the above mentioned packages after that, simply stop at the kxstudio-desktop-base part of the install and install just the audio software you want. But, you still should let the install get you the cadence tools and tweaks.

Another thing, you asked about was RT kernel. IMHO(and you will find a variety on the topic) the RT kernel is no more useful for audio than most stock kernels. I've had nothing but problems over the years with it, and gave up before most of the stuff that helps us in audio was rolled into the stock kernel anyway. RT isn't developed for audio, it just had, at one time, a way to make less xruns. Stick with the stock kernel, and see if it too makes a difference.

I'm with ya on being a music guy. I'm a bit of a computer guy, but not a programmer. Just a simple audio engineer looking for a low-cost yet power system. And by far, JACK is the best concept for digitial pro-audio I've ever seen. I really can't believe it hasn't been copied by microsoft or apple.

I did install the whole kxstudio thing once and I also ran the iso from usb. I actually didnt care for the "C" apps. I record idiotic heavy metal, I basically just need amp software, drum software, a DAW, and some plugins. My workflow is about as simple as the come. Not using any synths, not even using much in the way of plugins just Eq, reverb, dynamics. With my xruns, I actually get artifact on the recorded track. If I'm tracking drums from addictive drums (controlled by hydrogen) I get a "glitch" type noise once every few minutes and my xruns on my guitars (both "dry" during recording and "re-amped" thru amplitube) are mostly popping noises similar to clipping, except my levels are peaking at -6. Is there some way to isolate the source of these xruns? Why is it that Windows machines can achieve 128 frames on 2 buffers with the same hardware?

I'm not talking about an RT kernel, I'm referring to Jack running in RT mode. This business with limits.conf and adduser audio and that. Ive tried those things and still doesnt seem to matter.

You should be able to achieve that with linux. The only difference is windows doesn't tell you when you have an xrun. Though it does sound like you're having a more serious problem, and from what you've said the first thing I'd try then is reverting to a stock kernel and give it another try. Unfortunately, mileage varies tremendously between pc's and interfaces. The slightest thing can really screw you over. It's all trial and error.

I'm am on a completly stock install of mint 14. I get the flashing yellow "RT" in qjackctl, does that mean I'm truly in RT or can this be a false positive? Now that I think of it, I don't have wineasio installed and my only recording plugins are windows apps. I think wine tries to use directsound if it cant find asio, which might be the problem.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. With kxstudio, the rt part just works, and you shouldn't have to mess with too much. Though the adding user to audio group is ESSENTIAL. If it's just for the sake of testing, you can always give my iso YALS a few threads down a shot(sorry the other 2 are not up at this time.) It's got the most modern 3.7 testing kernel, and all the kxstudio tools loaded and configured. Try it out and see if you still get the kind of xruns you're talking about. If you're still getting lots of xruns ruining your sound I would venture to say you've got a hardware compatibility issue somewhere in your system. Other than that, I'm fresh out of answers cause I don't know what you've done to your system with limits.conf and whatnot. My experience has been things working with very little effort out of the box ever since I went the road of Mint-Kxstudio.(my only other suggestion is bumping down to mint 13, it's more stable and the 12.04 distro's are supported better/faster by the kxstudio repos)

Here's the other tip, If you're using kxstudio repos and tools, don't use qjackctl, use cadence. Much better tool, with more settings.

I read somewhere that tweaking limits.conf isnt necessary now, I did "sudo adduser eric audio" though. I am pretty sure that not having wineasio installed is the problem. The windows app is using directsound instead of asio if I'm not mistaken and there's probably some discrepancy between wine's audio system and what jack is trying to do. I'll try wineasio, and also see if a native app like guitarix causes the same amount of xruns. If so then I'll try YALS or AVLinux.

abysmal43 wrote:I read somewhere that tweaking limits.conf isnt necessary now

True

abysmal43 wrote:I am pretty sure that not having wineasio installed is the problem. The windows app is using directsound instead of asio

That could definitely be your problem!

abysmal43 wrote:If so then I'll try YALS or AVLinux.

Since it was the title of your post I supposed I should have expanded on AV Linux before throwing you my option that I just posted a few weeks ago and is still in a testing state(but should work wonderful for everyday use out of the box.) Being based on debian, and not Ubuntu, makes AVLinux probably the most stable linux studio out of the box. But there are some drawbacks to this. This also means that only relatively stable apps make the cut, JACK1 instead of JACK2, LXDE(while low-power and a good choice for a mass distro with broad hardware implecations) isn't super configurable. But it provides everything one should need to get going with linux audio, and runs as rock solid as possible. If I today were to build a proper full on studio and I had to make a decision as to what OS to run the whole thing off, I'd choose AV linux for reliability any day!

All that being said, I really like some of the more "testing" oriented programs linux has to offer. Programs that are in active development, are stable enough for most use, but might crash once and a while. Mainly talking about KXStudio Cadence Tools, and Ardour3 in particular. I would feel very lost not using them for a serious mix in my home studio at this point.

All things considered, everything is a double-edged sword. There's lots of choices in linux(sometimes too many) and it's up to you to decide what's best for you and your hardware.

I'll give the wineasio driver a chance and see how that does. Ideally I think I'd rather use an audio based distro anyway. Mint is awesome for what most people use their computers for, but I'm using mine as a DAW 99% of the time, so it stands to reason that I should be using the most reliable distro for that purpose. I really don't mind typing things into a console and editing a conf file here and there, but ultimately I'd rather not. I just want to plug instruments in, hit the round, red button, and thrash away.

abysmal43 wrote:Ideally I think I'd rather use an audio based distro anyway. Mint is awesome for what most people use their computers for, but I'm using mine as a DAW 99% of the time

I'm using Mint as a DAW 90% of the time. I've tried em all, including Linux From Scratch, and Arch(Arch is a close 2nd) and I keep ending up back at Mint+KX. The whole reason I started the YALS distro is precisely so people can try different combinations of things from a convenient iso. It can be used for install, but doing your own upgrade to an Ubuntu based OS is always recommended. I love KXStudio, I just can't stand KDE as a desktop!

abysmal43 wrote:so it stands to reason that I should be using the most reliable distro for that purpose. I just want to plug instruments in, hit the round, red button, and thrash away.

I've laid out the summary above of a brief list of pros and cons. The best bet is try em all and see what works best. The beauty of live usb/dvd! It really comes down to: Stability vs. Cool New Toys. If stability is your thing, than go for AV Linux. If you want other tools, Mint and KXStudio from the upgrade guide are a great combo!

Try some different options, and Good Luck!

Some other tips about wineasio and use of your apps. With some of my windows apps, I've found they only want to work correctly at 44.1k, 1024 buffer. I get 0 xruns with Reason 5.0 this way. You mentioned amplitube earlier. It was a goto piece of gear for me in my chain for a long time in linux, until a combination of rakarrack and guitarix(IMHO) became a better choice with better sounds. But, I've found that amplitube seems to run ok under wineasio, but my preferred way to load it is through festige as the windows VST version of amplitube. Give that a try where applicable, and see if it makes a difference. (All of this stuff is in the KXStudio upgrade guide I wrote, and posted the link above.) Give a clean install of Mint 13 + My upgrade guide a try, and see how you feel after that. You may end up with more software than you want, but at least you'll have options and everything will be setup and ready for you without installing things one step at a time. It becomes confusing to diagnose problems on systems where you haven't followed a 'recommended' path to install. Either way, I think I've said enough and it's all on you to do some trial and error. A week or so of testing different options may equal a lifetime of linux audio, I know I've never looked back!

If you want to try AVLinux you can just burn a DVD and boot that. Running from a DVD is a bit clunky but gives you chance to try it out. You can also set it up to boot from a USB drive, or install to spare partition. I have found AVLinux gives very good Jack performance with no explicit tweaking required.