Dragonfly Hall Reverb

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Michael Willis
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Michael Willis » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:06 am

New release: https://github.com/michaelwillis/dragon ... /tag/0.9.5

This one fixes a bug that was exposed by Reaper. I didn't experience the same problem in Ardour.

It also gives Spin and Wander parameters more extreme range, which makes it easier to understand what they do. Try a very large room size, and set Wander to 0.0 ms, which makes it clear that Spin is an oscillator that moves the reverb tail left and right in the stereo space. Then turn up wander a little bit at a time and you'll find that it modulates the spin per delay line, such that there are multiple sounds moving around at different places in the left/right stereo space.

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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Michael Willis » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:50 pm

Release candidate now available: https://github.com/michaelwillis/dragon ... /1.0.0-RC1

This one fixes a minor bug, clicking the current preset now will reset the parameter to the defaults for that preset instead of doing nothing.

Unless somebody reports more bugs that I am able to fix, I will promote this to an official v1.0.0 release in about a week... almost exactly a year after I announced this project.

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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby funkmuscle » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:36 pm

Michael Willis wrote:Release candidate now available: https://github.com/michaelwillis/dragon ... /1.0.0-RC1

This one fixes a minor bug, clicking the current preset now will reset the parameter to the defaults for that preset instead of doing nothing.

Unless somebody reports more bugs that I am able to fix, I will promote this to an official v1.0.0 release in about a week... almost exactly a year after I announced this project.

any chance of dropping a reverse verb in there? Or like IR, the option to reverse the reverbs?

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Michael Willis
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Michael Willis » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:01 pm

funkmuscle wrote:any chance of dropping a reverse verb in there? Or like IR, the option to reverse the reverbs?

It can't be done, Jimmy.

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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Loki Harfagr » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:13 pm

I only tested a "git pull" local build version. (since I still don't know how to build from the source tar and its empy dpf :D)

All is fine here, I noticed the newly made presets now (since 0.9.5 I think) include the mean to refresh the pots/settings and categories/families they're issued :-)

I was just slightly surprised to read "version 0.9.5" in the panel (and ttl of course) instead of 1.0.0RC1 but it doesn't break anything in the sound ;-)

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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Michael Willis » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:36 pm

Michael Willis wrote:
funkmuscle wrote:any chance of dropping a reverse verb in there? Or like IR, the option to reverse the reverbs?

It can't be done, Jimmy.

Sorry, maybe the humor was lost in transmission, that was supposed to be a Jimmy Page reference. I currently have no idea how to implement a reverse reverb.

I've had people suggest several features that would allow more ability to do crazy effects (including the inimitable Unfa). Right now I'm considering this project "almost done", but I'm also considering starting a new project aimed at people who want more creative freedom. The idea is still really hazy, mostly just a mental list of suggestions that don't really fit in the scope of "acoustic concert hall" sound that was my primary goal for Dragonfly.

For some reason when dreaming up a new project, naming is something that I get hung up on. Right now some possible code names for the new project (also just in my head) are "Midnight" or "Starlight" or "Starlit Nights" or something like that. Reverse reverb sounds like exactly the kind of feature that I would like to include. I might even consider it more of a "special effects" plugin instead of just a reverb. If anybody here is interested, I'd like to see if I can get a group brainstorm together somehow, while hopefully avoiding death-by-committee and second system syndrome

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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby funkmuscle » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:52 pm

Michael Willis wrote:
Michael Willis wrote:
funkmuscle wrote:any chance of dropping a reverse verb in there? Or like IR, the option to reverse the reverbs?

It can't be done, Jimmy.

Sorry, maybe the humor was lost in transmission, that was supposed to be a Jimmy Page reference. I currently have no idea how to implement a reverse reverb.

I've had people suggest several features that would allow more ability to do crazy effects (including the inimitable Unfa). Right now I'm considering this project "almost done", but I'm also considering starting a new project aimed at people who want more creative freedom. The idea is still really hazy, mostly just a mental list of suggestions that don't really fit in the scope of "acoustic concert hall" sound that was my primary goal for Dragonfly.

For some reason when dreaming up a new project, naming is something that I get hung up on. Right now some possible code names for the new project (also just in my head) are "Midnight" or "Starlight" or "Starlit Nights" or something like that. Reverse reverb sounds like exactly the kind of feature that I would like to include. I might even consider it more of a "special effects" plugin instead of just a reverb. If anybody here is interested, I'd like to see if I can get a group brainstorm together somehow, while hopefully avoiding death-by-committee and second system syndrome

Np hahaha!! I'm a Page fan but still missed the joke.. All good. The IR plugin has that 'reverse' option so you can get the swelling effect.

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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Michael Willis » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:25 pm

funkmuscle wrote:Np hahaha!! I'm a Page fan but still missed the joke.. All good. The IR plugin has that 'reverse' option so you can get the swelling effect.

Yeah, I'm not sure that there is a way to do realtime reverse on an algorithmic reverb like Dragonfly. IR is different because you have the whole impulse response in a buffer, so it can just be flipped around.

Of course, this might be kind of like Glyn Johns telling Jimmy Page that reverse reverb can't be done, only to have Page show him how to do it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_echo#Development

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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Michael Willis » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:26 pm

Loki Harfagr wrote:I was just slightly surprised to read "version 0.9.5"

Aww, I forgot to bump the version number in the code... * sigh *

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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby funkmuscle » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:41 pm

Michael Willis wrote:Of course, this might be kind of like Glyn Johns telling Jimmy Page that reverse reverb can't be done, only to have Page show him how to do it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_echo#Development

That's exactly it.. That effect in a Whole Lotta of Love where you hear the reverb/echo first.

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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby ssj71 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:31 pm

Michael Willis wrote:Yeah, I'm not sure that there is a way to do realtime reverse on an algorithmic reverb like Dragonfly


well its certainly possible by inducing latency equal to the length of the tail, then effectively running the algorithm backwards. There might be a more clever way, but inevitably if you want to hear the verb before the dry, you'll have to have latency (it's non-causal).
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Michael Willis » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:58 am

I made an experimental update based on some feedback I got from other forums:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dragon ... /1.0.0-RC2

This changes the presets such that they don't control the sliders at all. Some people who prefer to use the reverb 0% dry (and mix in the dry signal elsewhere) indicated that it's a pain to explore the presets and have the dry level pop back up every time they click a new preset.

I also made a change to the way the early reflection algorithm is parameterized, hopefully the early level can be mixed in much higher now without sounding harsh.

I'm still not sure if I like the whole "presets don't control the sliders" thing, but I figured it would be better to let people try it out and see what the community thinks.

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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby AlexTheBassist » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:04 am

Michael Willis wrote:Some people who prefer to use the reverb 0% dry (and mix in the dry signal elsewhere)

Well, it's the way professional engineers do that, excluding some rare cases. Dry/Wet slider should be really independent of presets.
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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby finotti » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:48 pm

Michael Willis wrote:I made an experimental update based on some feedback I got from other forums:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dragon ... /1.0.0-RC2

This changes the presets such that they don't control the sliders at all. Some people who prefer to use the reverb 0% dry (and mix in the dry signal elsewhere) indicated that it's a pain to explore the presets and have the dry level pop back up every time they click a new preset.

I also made a change to the way the early reflection algorithm is parameterized, hopefully the early level can be mixed in much higher now without sounding harsh.

I'm still not sure if I like the whole "presets don't control the sliders" thing, but I figured it would be better to let people try it out and see what the community thinks.


I also usually use the reverb 100% wet, but it seems to me that the ratio between dry and early/late reflections is part of the preset (i.e., part of what is trying to emulate). If the presets don't change the sliders, they might not represent the expected situation. (I usually set the dry to zero increase the early/late keeping their ratio.)

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Re: Dragonfly Hall Reverb

Postby Michael Willis » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:40 pm

finotti wrote:I also usually use the reverb 100% wet, but it seems to me that the ratio between dry and early/late reflections is part of the preset (i.e., part of what is trying to emulate). If the presets don't change the sliders, they might not represent the expected situation. (I usually set the dry to zero increase the early/late keeping their ratio.)

I wondered about that too, but the way I use that ratio is more about stage presence rather than about the room itself. I set early reflections more rich for frontal sounds, less for middle row, and none for instruments in the back. Maybe other people consider the ratio of early/late differently than I do.


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