Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

This topic was created, as requested, for all Linux OS powered mobile devices other than Android.

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Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby khz » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:08 am

https://puri.sm/
:D
https://videos.puri.sm/promo/l5-campaign2.mp4
https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
The special feature of Librem 5 is that it runs neither with the mobile operating system Android nor with iOS, but with PureOS, a GNU/Linux distribution based on Debian. Purism promises to be a secure smartphone that focuses exclusively on privacy and does not collect data about the user. In addition, the communication should be protected with end-to-end encryption by default.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Librem_5
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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free

Postby khz » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:51 am

Language is hard!!!11!!one! :P
"Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/" <-- Better?

The sad reality of our world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWKzVxMzvxg
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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby Luc » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:29 pm

I don't believe for a second that carriers will let that happen in their networks. Blatant breach of privacy has become a very large, powerful and lucrative industry.

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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby Lyberta » Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:34 pm

I find it ironic that their site pulls crap from googleapis.com without asking users. Well, my Replicant smartphone doesn't even have Wi-Fi so we'll see what they will manage to pull off.

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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby chaocrator » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:32 pm

the question is roundtrip latency.
(and comparing the price to used iPads :mrgreen: )

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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby asbak » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:19 pm

The concept is nice but their prices are not exactly in keeping with the Open Source community spirit.
They are San Francisco based so there's the first hint at potential trouble.

I also sure hope this isn't some Tech equivalent of buying supermarket "organic" and "ethically sourced" food, where virtue signalling consumers are charged (and happy to pay) a huge "social responsibility" markup.

Also, never trust any kind of claims about encrypted (and therefore supposedly secure) communication mechanisms from any corporation.
Secrets you cannot afford to lose control over must never be kept on a computer or discussed on a phone. Ever.

Nevertheless I'd love a Linux based phone. Just not sure whether this is the one.

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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby Lyberta » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:12 pm

asbak wrote:their prices are not exactly in keeping with the Open Source community spirit.


What is the Open Source community spirit?

Here's some other prices:
https://tehnoetic.com/
https://minifree.org/

A workstation for 3,700 euro, a phone (SGS3) that I recently bought for 75$ myself for 400 euro. Dunno about laptop prices but they were released 10 years ago.

Freedom is expensive.

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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby mendo » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:41 pm

asbak wrote:They are San Francisco based so there's the first hint at potential trouble.

Why :?:

asbak wrote:I also sure hope this isn't some Tech equivalent of buying supermarket "organic" and "ethically sourced" food, where virtue signalling consumers are charged (and happy to pay) a huge "social responsibility" markup.

Hmm.
question: Which companies actually think of producing a sort of tech that is at least somehow sustainable and cares for some midterm durability?
I only imagine 2 hardware companies: Fairphone & shiftphone.
On the software side, Jolla sets the standard: our Jolla phone (I believe 1rst gen. purchased 2014) still receives updates!

Instead of feeding the beast we should check what we can do to avoid creating nu waste each 2 yrs.
Come on, Apple does not even provide security updates for iOS 10 any more for devices purchased in 2014!

Musictech is crazy for always new gear but what happens to old stuff that does not live in the second hand market like a original 808?

asbak wrote:Nevertheless I'd love a Linux based phone. Just not sure whether this is the one.

I really like the Jolla approach because they also run android apps in a sandbox. So you are not isolated and can use useful apps like traffic directions etc.

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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby khz » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:06 pm

Librem 5, Linux-powered smartphone w/Privacy features - Lunduke Show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SwE9W8JasA
Todd Weaver, CEO of Purism, joins me to talk about the Librem 5. Their crowd-funded project to build a 5" smartphone that runs a traditional Linux distribution (shipping with a variant of Debian) -- complete with hardware kill switches for the cellular modem and other components.
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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby asbak » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:50 pm

mendo wrote:
asbak wrote:They are San Francisco based so there's the first hint at potential trouble.

Why :?:


It's a super expensive city and that will be reflected in the pricing of the product. Linux & Open Source products at premium corporate rates just doesn't feel right.


Hmm.

question: Which companies actually think of producing a sort of tech that is at least somehow sustainable and cares for some midterm durability?
I only imagine 2 hardware companies: Fairphone & shiftphone.
On the software side, Jolla sets the standard: our Jolla phone (I believe 1rst gen. purchased 2014) still receives updates!

Instead of feeding the beast we should check what we can do to avoid creating nu waste each 2 yrs.
Come on, Apple does not even provide security updates for iOS 10 any more for devices purchased in 2014!

Musictech is crazy for always new gear but what happens to old stuff that does not live in the second hand market like a original 808?


The Apple model is fraudulent in my opinion. They deliberately cripple (and of course, they don't advertise this) their devices via software updates to run poorly and / or chew through the battery as part of a ploy to "encourage" their customers to upgrade.

Agreed that providing long support is ideal and the right thing to do.



I really like the Jolla approach because they also run android apps in a sandbox. So you are not isolated and can use useful apps like traffic directions etc.


Something like Jolla / Sailfish or whatever may yet become a viable alternative. However, I'm not crazy about the idea of tying in a Linux based phone OS with Android at all.

The reason? The Apple & Google "app culture" is to lure users with supposedly "free to use" applications which are coded to spy on every facet of their lives. Those kinds of practices are not in the spirit of Linux and Open Source software in my opinion.

I realise that coders have to eat and earn a living, but this kind of model is unethical and abusive in my view.

I also realise that there is an enormous base of already coded applications for Android, and that it would seem like a missed opportunity to not integrate a Linux phone with it.

However, if the rationale were to make a Linux phone relatively privacy conscious and secure, it would be utterly self-defeating to integrate it with the Android ecosystem.

If the idea were to make a Linux phone behave like, and tap into the Android phone experience.... my view would be "What is the point????" One may as well just stick with Android in such a case.


I believe that there is a real need for a mobile / phone ecosystem that is less tied into the Corporate Spying Machine. It won't attract the mass market, and because of that there will be a cost knock on effect for such devices. However, there is a big gap between the $500 ball park figure for this Linux phone vs a similar Android design and hardware spec of certain Xiaomi models which go for around $140.

I think a +- $300 phone Linux phone is a more realistic proposition. Preferably it should not be integrated with anything Android & Google App Store because that would defeat whatever supposed security features it has.

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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby khz » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:42 pm

Librem 5 dev kits are shipping! https://puri.sm/posts/2018-devkits-are-shipping/
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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby d.healey » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:26 pm

Linux & Open Source products at premium corporate rates just doesn't feel right.

That is totally illogical. The term Open Source was coined to appeal to corporations, it was to encourage them to release free (as in freedom) software without having to discuss the ethics of digital freedom. A lot (probably the majority) of free software is developed by corporations and sold commercially. Paying for a product is not against the Open Source or the Free software spirit and in fact is one of the best ways to support such developers.

As far as I'm concerned any company that is as dedicated to respecting their user's freedom as Purism is deserve to be paid for their hard work and their products.

Yes it would be nice if the Librem could be more closely price matched to existing phones but that's not realistic. The Librem user base is going to be miniscule compared to the existing systems so this will add to the price too. I think $500 is relatively cheap considering all the work they've done and still have to do, I would be surprised if they are making a profit in the first couple of years once the product launches.

If you find a way to spend years developing a new mobile operating system, supporting applications, and mobile hardware, and can give it to everyone for $300 then you may complain about their prices, until then you should support them.
Last edited by d.healey on Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby khz » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:54 pm

Free
    documentation
      of

        hardware
          and
            software
              :like:
Free as in Freedom - Richard Stallman :-D
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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby d.healey » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:55 pm

Actually with the current sale I can get the phone for $249, I'm very tempted although I will have to buy a laptop and Librem key (no idea what that is) too.
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Re: Librem 5 - smartphone based on Debian > android-free \o/

Postby asbak » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:55 am

This Pinephone looks like a more palatable Linux phone option. It's still early days and in development (meaning not yet ready for the market) but the pricing is more aimed at the working man & woman instead of latté sipping Cali trustfund hipsters with a pet cause.

Yes I am aware that it's not yet fully developed or ready for the consumer market.

Image

https://liliputing.com/2019/01/pinephon ... -soon.html

Pricing appears to be around $149 for a devkit

More info & pics here
https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php ... &pid=43850
Last edited by asbak on Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.


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