Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

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Gps
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Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby Gps » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:39 pm

What I am trying to do, is make a cover of this track in lmms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpR4ceGxW0

The bassline is the problem. How to do this in a DAW.

The dadum part. dadum dum dum.

A bassplayer told me its EEE EEE GGG AAA.

First question:
Is there maybe a (bass ) guitar player around that can explain what is going on?

Second question, can I do this in a daw without recording a real guitar.
Been trying two notes for the first note, but that does not seem to be it.

I have been fighting this bassline for some time now, and timing wise I am pretty close.

What I have now:
First piano part
Image

Second piano part that starts around 45 sec in, and seems to follow the bassline, at least timing wise.

Image

The bassline, which I have been moving 2/192 to get it to sound right, but I seem to fail. ( maybe its just reverb)
Image

And sound cloud version, I am not totally unhappy with it, but its not 100 % right.

https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/th ... er-attempt

Made with LMMS on openSUSE leap.

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sysrqer
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby sysrqer » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:23 pm

You just need to change the sound a bit. First, it sounds like there's reverb on yours, take that off to start with. The bass on the original is really snappy so on your sample/synth make the ADSR quicker (lower values), particularly decay and release.

If you're trying make the same sound I would try something else, a sampled bass would be better - the original sounds like it's just a sample of a bass and triggered by midi to me so this is easily achievable. You might also want to try automating the ADSR from note to notes, the original does have some notes longer than others but that happens automatically with samples so I think it might be a simple one sample sampler instrument (if that was even a thing when this was released, if not then ignore this :D ).

Gps
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby Gps » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:35 pm

I suspect a sampler was used, and that is causing the weird timing issues.

Right now the bassline is zynaddsubFx, with a default base preset.

I only turned the sustain and the release ? , a bit down.

I also used vlc media player to slow down the track. That made me sure about a dadum. But if its some effect like delay or reverb, or just a guitar playing thing, I cant figure out. :)

barbouze
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby barbouze » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:24 pm

To me it sounds duum dum dum, no da. :?
The dadum is an illusion caused by the kick that blends well with the bass and triggers compression. This causes a volume drop in the bass and instead of a DUUUMm you get a DUuUMm. As the bass is offbeat and the kick is on the beat it enforce this effect. Try something like this:

Code: Select all

          1...2...3...4...
Bass:    e>.e.e..e>.e.e..a
Kick:     !...!...!...!...

dots are 1/16th silences and the > means the note is continuous, here a 1/8th.

Both the kick and the bass are mono (no stereo effects at all) to glue them together and get that groove.

Luc
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby Luc » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:38 am

I just played the original through an EQ, enhancing certain low frequencies and supressing high ones. It sounds quite clear that way.

Gps
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby Gps » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:14 am

barbouze wrote:To me it sounds duum dum dum, no da. :?
The dadum is an illusion caused by the kick that blends well with the bass and triggers compression. This causes a volume drop in the bass and instead of a DUUUMm you get a DUuUMm. As the bass is offbeat and the kick is on the beat it enforce this effect. Try something like this:

Code: Select all

          1...2...3...4...
Bass:    e>.e.e..e>.e.e..a
Kick:     !...!...!...!...

dots are 1/16th silences and the > means the note is continuous, here a 1/8th.

Both the kick and the bass are mono (no stereo effects at all) to glue them together and get that groove.


Interesting, I was wondering if I was hearing side chain compression or not. Will definitely gives this a try. ( not real side chaining )
Been trying a longer first note, but will try some more along that path, then fiddle with kick volume. ( and some more fiddling with the envelope of the bass )

I might make a version, were I use samples from the acapella version I found online, ( hope to find one that sounds better though then the you tube vid, I link below )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kDWJVLEeX4 :mrgreen:

Main reason why I want to cover this track, is to find out why it gives me trouble sitting still while listening to it.
The groove of the song ? First attempt many month ago sounded totally dead, no swing at all, so I am at least making some progress.

barbouze
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby barbouze » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:35 pm

Here's a great tool to view what's going on: Sonic Visualiser. Our ears and our eyes can be fooled but not both at the same time :wink:
This gave me this screenshot that has been taken starting from the hey hey! right before the bass starts.
sonic visualiser.jpg

Yellow vertical lines are the kick and red/purple/blue rectangles are the bass and its harmonics. This confirms that you've been told the correct notes (e-e-g-a) as well as the pattern I guessed.
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Gps
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby Gps » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:59 am

You have Sonic Visualiser working :shock:

I remember installing it, but it did not work. I think I might try again.

I just tried to start it, and it starts, but it tells me there is a newer version, and it cant find the vamp plugins.

Can you tell me the name of the plugin I need to see what you showed me ?

Think I am gonna bother the openSUSE forum. Yast says I have vamp plugins installed.

barbouze
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby barbouze » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:44 pm

I simply downloaded the 3.1.1 appimage and didn't install any plugin, this is the builtin melodic range spectrogram.

Gps
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby Gps » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:41 pm

an appimage :shock:

I am almost crying from joy. :lol:

I have tried to use the program the right Linux way, install through package manager.

Because that did not work, I also attempted to compile it myself.

After some time I gave up, and kinda forgot about the program, no appimaze back then, they only offered a deb or tar ball.
It was for some fast apeggio part in Newcleus - Jam on it. If I can get it to work for the party, that track will be next.
Then I can finally finish that one too.
There is a topic here form me about that track, and prob me failing to get s v to work.

Also got an reply from the opensuse forum. The vamp plugins are not installed in the folder were sonic visualizer looks for them.
That might be an easy fix in the setting of sonic visualizer. ( if it does, I was asked to report it, so they can fix it in the package)

If that fails, will try the appimage.

I have very good experience with the LMMS appimage :wink:
Release candidate 6 is the latest version.

One question, about the mono part. ( gluing the kick to the bassline )

LMMS prob can't do that ? if its explained in any daw though, I am interested, even if I can't do it in lmms.

I am old enough to know what mono means, but because LMMS is in stereo like most daw ? I am confused already. :)

Gps
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby Gps » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:04 pm

About that picture, love it.

Nice to see why I was struggling too. kick is at the end of one note and the start of another.

barbouze
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby barbouze » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:02 pm

Gps wrote:One question, about the mono part. ( gluing the kick to the bassline )

LMMS prob can't do that ? if its explained in any daw though, I am interested, even if I can't do it in lmms.

I am old enough to know what mono means, but because LMMS is in stereo like most daw ? I am confused already. :)


Of course it can! A mono signal in a stereo track is simply both left and right channels playing the same thing. :wink:

Gps
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby Gps » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:43 pm

Thank you, gonna think about it.

It sounds simple enough, will figure out some way on how to do this in lmms.

If only I could delete the left right, delay on a stereo track, instant mono :lol:

Gps
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby Gps » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:12 am

Made some progress.

I added the path to the plugins in the Sonic v. version from openSUSE. That did not help, the error about the plugins is still here.

Then I tried the appimage version, and that works too, but.....
I think I see the same error about the plugins. So it seems there is a problem with the vamp plugins from opensuse.

For what I want to do though, I do not need those plugins. I loaded Kraze - The Party and was able to get a screen like the screenshot shown.
It was not as clear as the screen shot, but I think that's a user problem. I just need to learn to use Sonic Visualizer.

It need fiddling with some settings. :)

barbouze
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Re: Kraze - The party , bassline trouble.

Postby barbouze » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:27 pm

Sonic visualiser is user-friendly and you should be able to quickly find settings that suits your needs :D
Regarding plugins, from the official website:

Code: Select all

Linux, other Unix   .so       Put plugins for all users to use in /usr/local/lib/vamp
                              Put plugins for the current user only in $HOME/vamp

You can alternatively set the VAMP_PATH environment variable to list the locations a host should look in for Vamp plugins.
VAMP_PATH should contain a semicolon-separated (on Windows) or colon-separated (OS/X, Linux) list of paths. If it is set, it will completely override the standard locations listed above.


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