Anyone Knows What Holistic Songwriting Is?

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GraysonPeddie
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Anyone Knows What Holistic Songwriting Is?

Postby GraysonPeddie » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:51 am

I looked up the definition of the word "holistic" in Google and saw this:

characterized by comprehension of the parts of something as intimately interconnected and explicable only by reference to the whole.


Without ever referring to holistic-songwriting.com, what does the word "holistic" have to do with the songwriting process? What is holistic songwriting, so long as you take holistic-songwriting.com out of context? I want to know in your own words.

If holistic songwriting is all about marketing, (as I saw in the video), then I don't care about that. I have no plans on making money out of my songs. In fact, I only wrote instrumental music, using my own imagination as I see fit, borrowing parts of different songs that interest me the most. I don't care to write hit songs; much less caring about being in top charts. Why? Because I wrote songs for a cause: I support The Venus Project and Free World Charter.

I care about expressing myself as an artist and I don't write lyrics for my future songs, so does holistic songwriting apply to me?

And yes, I did come across holistic songwriting when I did a search for "holistic songwriting." But Googling "what is holistic songwriting" (no quotes) simply turned up a bunch of results linked to holistic-songwriting.com and I only stopped at first page.

If you were to ask me why I asked a question about holistic songwriting, it's because I got an email from Friedemann Findeisen (appeared to be automated) about holistic songwriting and I did not want to sign up for his courses, much less want to watch a video, as I'd rather read at my own pace instead of watching the video.
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.

jonetsu
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Re: Anyone Knows What Holistic Songwriting Is?

Postby jonetsu » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:13 pm

Friedemann Findeisen analyses pop songs and made out a dictionary of techniques used ("The Addiction Formula" book). He also sells various musical courses and coaches pop song writers. You will come up perhaps with some of these techniques by yourself, as any composer did. We think it's natural, and they are, but that does prevent making a list of them. Simple things like for instance when doing a second pass to a melody or theme, to add some variation, or to build up timewise a piece, making an envelope contour of the piece to help stage it, building up drama, using certain instruments for certain effects, etc, etc. All things that we take for intuitive but that can be listed down and analyzed. It's not going agianst natural inspiration since our brains to start with are machines that respond to stimuli. Having a good grip of that mechanism (intuitively or otherwise) in order to pass on higher elements can help making a piece that will touch people beyond the surface. OTOH, someone who has the best of high-level intentions but gets bogged down in the low level stuff might not have all the chances to touch people.

And yes, the book cost something. And the courses also, like many other courses out there. I do not know about the courses, but the book is a dictionary of aforementioned-like techniques.

Here he goes on about analyzing Taylor Swift songs. 8 minutes, free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=damt9eQ_2Js

GraysonPeddie
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Re: Anyone Knows What Holistic Songwriting Is?

Postby GraysonPeddie » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:55 pm

So in general, holistic songwriting is associated with pop music and I'm into new age genre. And I read the "Declining in intro instrumental" thread in which you shared a link to his 8-minute video, so I saw that.

Thanks.
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.

jonetsu
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Re: Anyone Knows What Holistic Songwriting Is?

Postby jonetsu » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:55 pm

Hmmmm. Many classical composers also used 'gimmicks'. And jazz musicians. And blues. A lot of musicians. New age is certainly full of 'gimmicks' as a good part of it relies on creating physical, although relaxing, sensations in the listener. Most music that has a structure that eventually will repeat relies on some 'gimmick'. If only to do a nice pass again but this time around we'll add some flute in the background to make it less boring. 'Gimmicks' in any art are used over and over. Many of the ones found in pop songs are used everywhere else.

Cheers.

GraysonPeddie
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Re: Anyone Knows What Holistic Songwriting Is?

Postby GraysonPeddie » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:38 pm

So in effect, holistic songwriting is full of gimmicks, right? I know I'm trying to keep things simple, but it does help me understand what it is and how it works. I'm not going to spend my money on courses until I have a job.

Could my third song, "Building a World From a Grid" be holistic?
https://soundcloud.com/grayson-peddie/b ... rom-a-grid

What about my first two songs, "Car-Free World" and "Roamin' 'round the World?" (My songs are in alphabetical order.)
https://soundcloud.com/grayson-peddie/
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.

jonetsu
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Re: Anyone Knows What Holistic Songwriting Is?

Postby jonetsu » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:35 pm

"Holistic Songwriting" is the name of the outfit created by Findeisen. Like any other name adopted to represent something, like say "The Rolling Stones", it is not to be taken textually as per the dictionary. This said, yes, music (not "Holistic Songwriting") is quite often made of 'gimmicks' which I take care to write in-between quotes. If we were to expand these quotes, we would say there is an wide array of well-known mechannisms used in music that composers of any genre will use, either, as I've said at the beginning, instinctively, or by intent. Most humans react to those. There is a physical aspect to music, apart from the air pressure. We want people to feel that way or that way by that music, that excerpt, and we will use mostly known approaches in doing so. We will use a crash cymbal there to give a specific reaction at that moment, we will add shakers to relief boredom, we will use again a crash cymbal to splice into blocks, in short we will use construction blocks that us, and people are used-to, we will use a common dictionary. Be it in pop, classical, jazz, etc... Yes, some music does more than that, and explores new boundaries, often intellectual (eg. Varese for instance). Some others will throw away everything like Igorr and try something new. But for most, including your music, we use known building blocks. We will not scare people away. And that's OK. 'Gimmick' is not pejorative per se. To browse a list of such blocks, how they can be used, what they do, can be useful. It's a tool.

For instance in 'Car-Free Village' you are using toms to introduce a change, like at 6:55. That's one way of doing it. There are other ways. These are the 'gimmicks', the 'hooks', the tricks, the mechanisms.

Now that the house is built in such a way that people will find it familiar, does it transcends its construction ? Are the blocks put together in such a way that they could mean more than their physical sum ? All this is actually very interesting. There's really more to the picture or rather, to the tune.

For instance bass does not really to be fully there. Our brains will create the bass missing parts given the right cues, just like we imagine the rest of a car when we only see the hood past a building wall.

And then the same applies to the use of chords and their relation to notes. The intent and how it is expressed of it and how much of it and how much do we leave for the listener to work on.

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Re: Anyone Knows What Holistic Songwriting Is?

Postby tavasti » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:33 am

jonetsu wrote:But for most, including your music, we use known building blocks. We will not scare people away. And that's OK. 'Gimmick' is not pejorative per se. To browse a list of such blocks, how they can be used, what they do, can be useful. It's a tool.

Yes, it is true that there is some building blocks. Blocks can be different, from basics scales and chords. Then chord progressions, beats, etc.

It is possible to invent everything by yourself, but most likely it takes huge amount of time to create even something which will be ok for yourself, and whole another story is how anyone else will listen it.

I'm very novice musician, but I just downloaded free material from that site, and I'll check if there is something usefull, something that will give me inspiration, etc.
Linux veteran & Novice musician

Hear my music at https://audiu.net/users/tawaste

GraysonPeddie
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Re: Anyone Knows What Holistic Songwriting Is?

Postby GraysonPeddie » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:17 pm

Let me split the huge paragraph so that others can read and digest it.

"Holistic Songwriting" is the name of the outfit created by Findeisen. Like any other name adopted to represent something, like say "The Rolling Stones", it is not to be taken textually as per the dictionary. This said, yes, music (not "Holistic Songwriting") is quite often made of 'gimmicks' which I take care to write in-between quotes. If we were to expand these quotes, we would say there is an wide array of well-known mechannisms used in music that composers of any genre will use, either, as I've said at the beginning, instinctively, or by intent. Most humans react to those. There is a physical aspect to music, apart from the air pressure.

We want people to feel that way or that way by that music, that excerpt, and we will use mostly known approaches in doing so. We will use a crash cymbal there to give a specific reaction at that moment, we will add shakers to relief boredom, we will use again a crash cymbal to splice into blocks, in short we will use construction blocks that us, and people are used-to, we will use a common dictionary. Be it in pop, classical, jazz, etc... Yes, some music does more than that, and explores new boundaries, often intellectual (eg. Varese for instance).

Some others will throw away everything like Igorr and try something new. But for most, including your music, we use known building blocks. We will not scare people away. And that's OK. 'Gimmick' is not pejorative per se. To browse a list of such blocks, how they can be used, what they do, can be useful. It's a tool.


There. I will take some time to read it.
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.

jonetsu
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Re: Anyone Knows What Holistic Songwriting Is?

Postby jonetsu » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:52 pm

GraysonPeddie wrote: There. I will take some time to read it.


Well, here's some music to go along the reading then:

Off the Grid-1

jonetsu
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Re: Anyone Knows What Holistic Songwriting Is?

Postby jonetsu » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:05 pm

Sorry again for the long paragraph. I'm reading philosophy for some time and it's rather often that a paragraph of 12 lines can be a single sentence.

While there's interest in reading, I just read the following yesterday from a book written by a guy named David Byrne: "How Music Works".

Excerpt from page 162:

"Making music is like constructing a machine whose function is to dredge up emotions in performers and listeners alike. Some people find this idea repulsive, because it seems to relegate the artist to the level of a trickster, a manipulator, and deceiver - a kind of self-justifying onanist. They would prefer to see music as an expression of emotion rather than a gnerator of it, to believe in the artist as someone with something to say. I'm beginning to think of the artist as someone who is adept at making devices that tap into our shared psychological makeup and that trigger the deeply moving parts we have in common."


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