Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

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Broomy
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Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by Broomy »

A while ago I started tuning my instruments in fifths, which isn't a "new" tuning because a lot of bowed instruments are tuned this way (along with the tenor banjo and the mandolin family), but is relatively uncommon for guitar.
To help others to find their way with this tuning I'm pondering over a way to share info about this tuning (How to setup your instrument, chords, scales, etudes and so on).
Everything open source of course.

What would be a good way to go?
Create a website in line of the manual of lilypond, which is also downloadable as PDF for offline usage?
Or a more wiki-style based website?
Is hosting my own website a good idea, or is their a free of charge option available?
Lot's of question, but I would love your ideas.

Hans
The Quintar Project:
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by asbak »

Perhaps ask whether you could publish at https://musical-artifacts.com/
It's already set up and serving the community.
Some Focal / 20.04 audio packages and resources https://midistudio.groups.io/g/linuxaudio
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by Broomy »

Thanks for the response.
I thought of that option: Creating some PDf files using Lilypond and LaTEX and place them their. But how to make it know to the world?
I have a youtube channel about this tuning, adding a link to the document(s) there?
Blogging about it?
Downside is that it can't be a "growing" document, like say a website. But it is a simple and effective option.

Hans
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by asbak »

Broomy wrote: But how to make it know to the world?
Through tireless online activism of course. Stalk the usual suspect hangouts like guitarist forums and websites.
I have a youtube channel about this tuning, adding a link to the document(s) there?
Of course
Blogging about it?
Definitely, sites like this can host a blog, I think? https://freeshell.de/
Downside is that it can't be a "growing" document, like say a website. But it is a simple and effective option.
To increase the effects of your campaign you need to broaden your campaign. The larger your online presence in multiple locations, the more of an influence you will establish. It's a numbers game.

So in short, use ALL the methods and sites you can think of and cross link between them.
Some Focal / 20.04 audio packages and resources https://midistudio.groups.io/g/linuxaudio
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by Broomy »

That's a sound piece of advice, thanks.
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by Broomy »

Alright if I would make a book of reference what should be included?

For those familiar with stringed instruments, chords and scales maintain their visual shape when transposed to another key, for instance a barred C# chord has the same shape as a C barred chord only a half step higher. One of the advantages of the tuning is that all the shapes are usable throughout fretboard.
So would it be necessary to show the chords and scales in all the different keys, or just give a layout of the fretboard and show the "shape" of the scales and chords in only one key (C/Am)?

Then what scales to show?
I was thinking of the most common scales:
Major
Major Harmonic
Minor harmonic
Minor Melodic
(And their modes)
Octotonic: half/whole and whole/half step
Whole note scale
Pentatonic Major
Pentatonic Minor

And which chords?
Those constructed with the scales using thirds and fourths?
Jazzvoicings without the fifth and or the root
Shown in all inversions

A more abstract way to approach is to make all possible combinations of:
-b3 / 3
- b5 / 5 / #5
- bb7 / b7 / 7
- b9 / 9 / #9
And so on.

Well just some thoughts.

Hans
The Quintar Project:
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by apathity »

I would recommend write a couple easy to learn riffs and songs in this tuning and also release TAB and sheets for the songs. At the moment your idea sounds great but there is no real incentive to apply this tuning, unless as I said there's some guitar music using it? Devin Townsend for example uses open C tuning (I believe) and such an open tuning is already a lot of work to get accustomed to, but since he has a LOT of music released in this tuning, people are very eager to figure it out.
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by English Guy »

I would be very interested in the string gauges you use as for me, that has always been the problem with a guitar in 5ths.
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by Broomy »

As for the string gauges, that is easily taken care of.
In theory, moving up from one string to a higher string the gauge of the second (thinner) string has to be 2/3 of the first thicker string.
In practice, bass strings have to be thicker then treble strings, this results in a higher tension on the bass strings (for instance the tension of a string of a bass guitar is almost twice as high as a string of guitar).
As a rule of thumb I use a 62/100 ratio between two strings and this works well.
The step between a wound and plain steel string may be a little bit wider, like 60/100, but it is not that critical.

Your starting point for your thickest / lowest string depends on your lowest note and stringlength.
But if you use a six string bass with a regular stringlength (34") the following gauges would be workable:
Low C (half step above low B) .120
G .075
D .045
A 0.026
E 0.016
B 0.10
If a gauge isn't available choose the nearest available, it isn't all that critical.

If you have an other setup in mind let me know.

Hans
Last edited by Broomy on Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by ssj71 »

Broomy wrote:Creating some PDf files using Lilypond and LaTEX and place them there
I would consider making a github or bitbucket account and placing the source there. That will welcome collaborations and allow it to be a "growing" document.

As mentioned by asbak, Use as many venues for promotion as possible. Blog, youtube channel, in your signature of forums, shameless self plugs on IRC, wherever. Obviously its up to you where that line between helpfully informative and spammy annoyance is, but its a good idea to use multiple channels and mediums for promotion.
Broomy wrote:So would it be necessary to show the chords and scales in all the different keys
I would probably teach a principle, then explicitly show it applied to everything. That way the lazy can just find and read the scale they want, but people really trying to learn will see the better way. Similarly I'd have a basics section and then an advanced that extends the ideas, like showing more exotic scales. This way people can just skip the advanced stuff if they aren't ready for it, but the book is still helpful for advanced pupils. You could set up latex to have 2 different versions of the book, beginners and complete.
apathity wrote:I would recommend write a couple easy to learn riffs and songs in this tuning and also release TAB and sheets for the songs.
+1
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Broomy
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by Broomy »

ssj71 wrote:I would probably teach a principle, then explicitly show it applied to everything. That way the lazy can just find and read the scale they want, but people really trying to learn will see the better way. Similarly I'd have a basics section and then an advanced that extends the ideas, like showing more exotic scales. This way people can just skip the advanced stuff if they aren't ready for it, but the book is still helpful for advanced pupils. You could set up latex to have 2 different versions of the book, beginners and complete.
That's a good suggestion. Right now I'm reading a guitar book, which has some good Ideas, but after one idea is shown, it is written out in all 12 keys. The book can be condensed to 1/12th of its size with a single remark after an idea: apply this to all 12 keys.

Right now my plan is:
1. make some video's on a regular basis (simple song arrangements, etudes, excercises, etc.) provided with TAB and sheet music (using musical-artifacts.com)
I actually made some simple videos recently;
2. Make a reference book for scales and chords, with the principles laid out and some appendixes with the whole shebang transposed in 12 key (which is doable with Lilypond) (with a optionally sourceforge of github account if there's interest in the source files);
3. Make "noise" when something is updated or posted, here there and everywhere.
Oh, and (minor detail)...
4. Learn to play with the tuning myself... ;-)

Thanks guys for your feedback so far.

Hans
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by Broomy »

I'm working on the scale and chord book (and I'm impressed of the possibilities Lilypond and LaTEX have).
I've created a sourceforge project: https://sourceforge.net/projects/the-quintar-project/

I need some advice on the best way to manage my files.

What I do now is work on my book offline. The "book" consists of a mainfile with LyTEX sourcecode and several .ly files and some image files. When I compile the file there are several (mostly pdf) files made which are then used to be merged in the final output file.
I've made a simple directory structure with one parent directory and three subdirectories:
1. containing Lilypond files
2. Images
3. Output files
The parent directory contains the sourcecode
When I change the sourcecode and compile the document this effects several files in "Output files" directory.

What is the best way to update my files on sourceforge:
- Delete all the old files and replace them for the newer?
- Use a similar method as is used for software, where it is possible to track the edits? And if so how is this to be done?

Hans
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by Broomy »

I've used Git to place the stuff there and all works well.

I would love to get some feedback on my rough and dirty layout of the Chord and Scale book.
The chords shown in the chords section are mostly dummies, but you'll get the idea.

Hans
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
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Chords and Scalesbook done + short retune tutorial

Post by Broomy »

The Chords- and Scalesbook is ready (scroll down to the readme section).
I've also uploaded a video on how to retune a nylon acoustic to an All Fifths Tuning.

Hans
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
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Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Post by emarsk »

Just a side-note that may be of interest: Robert Fripp and Trey Gunn (if don't know who they are, fix that NOW!) use the "new standard tuning" which is a tuning by fifths with the highest two strings tuned by a minor third (to mitigate the problem of having the highest string too fragile).
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