Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Ask general music theory or songwriting questions, get feedback!

Moderators: khz, MattKingUSA

Broomy
Established Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:36 am

Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby Broomy » Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:39 am

A while ago I started tuning my instruments in fifths, which isn't a "new" tuning because a lot of bowed instruments are tuned this way (along with the tenor banjo and the mandolin family), but is relatively uncommon for guitar.
To help others to find their way with this tuning I'm pondering over a way to share info about this tuning (How to setup your instrument, chords, scales, etudes and so on).
Everything open source of course.

What would be a good way to go?
Create a website in line of the manual of lilypond, which is also downloadable as PDF for offline usage?
Or a more wiki-style based website?
Is hosting my own website a good idea, or is their a free of charge option available?
Lot's of question, but I would love your ideas.

Hans
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge

asbak
Established Member
Posts: 647
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:04 pm

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby asbak » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:06 am

Perhaps ask whether you could publish at https://musical-artifacts.com/
It's already set up and serving the community.

Broomy
Established Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby Broomy » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:38 am

Thanks for the response.
I thought of that option: Creating some PDf files using Lilypond and LaTEX and place them their. But how to make it know to the world?
I have a youtube channel about this tuning, adding a link to the document(s) there?
Blogging about it?
Downside is that it can't be a "growing" document, like say a website. But it is a simple and effective option.

Hans
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge

asbak
Established Member
Posts: 647
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:04 pm

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby asbak » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:19 am

Broomy wrote:But how to make it know to the world?


Through tireless online activism of course. Stalk the usual suspect hangouts like guitarist forums and websites.

I have a youtube channel about this tuning, adding a link to the document(s) there?


Of course

Blogging about it?


Definitely, sites like this can host a blog, I think? https://freeshell.de/

Downside is that it can't be a "growing" document, like say a website. But it is a simple and effective option.


To increase the effects of your campaign you need to broaden your campaign. The larger your online presence in multiple locations, the more of an influence you will establish. It's a numbers game.

So in short, use ALL the methods and sites you can think of and cross link between them.

Broomy
Established Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby Broomy » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:43 am

That's a sound piece of advice, thanks.
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge

Broomy
Established Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby Broomy » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:03 pm

Alright if I would make a book of reference what should be included?

For those familiar with stringed instruments, chords and scales maintain their visual shape when transposed to another key, for instance a barred C# chord has the same shape as a C barred chord only a half step higher. One of the advantages of the tuning is that all the shapes are usable throughout fretboard.
So would it be necessary to show the chords and scales in all the different keys, or just give a layout of the fretboard and show the "shape" of the scales and chords in only one key (C/Am)?

Then what scales to show?
I was thinking of the most common scales:
Major
Major Harmonic
Minor harmonic
Minor Melodic
(And their modes)
Octotonic: half/whole and whole/half step
Whole note scale
Pentatonic Major
Pentatonic Minor

And which chords?
Those constructed with the scales using thirds and fourths?
Jazzvoicings without the fifth and or the root
Shown in all inversions

A more abstract way to approach is to make all possible combinations of:
-b3 / 3
- b5 / 5 / #5
- bb7 / b7 / 7
- b9 / 9 / #9
And so on.

Well just some thoughts.

Hans
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge

apathity
Established Member
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:15 pm
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby apathity » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:35 pm

I would recommend write a couple easy to learn riffs and songs in this tuning and also release TAB and sheets for the songs. At the moment your idea sounds great but there is no real incentive to apply this tuning, unless as I said there's some guitar music using it? Devin Townsend for example uses open C tuning (I believe) and such an open tuning is already a lot of work to get accustomed to, but since he has a LOT of music released in this tuning, people are very eager to figure it out.

User avatar
English Guy
Established Member
Posts: 467
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:28 pm
Location: England

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby English Guy » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:44 pm

I would be very interested in the string gauges you use as for me, that has always been the problem with a guitar in 5ths.

Broomy
Established Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby Broomy » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:12 pm

As for the string gauges, that is easily taken care of.
In theory, moving up from one string to a higher string the gauge of the second (thinner) string has to be 2/3 of the first thicker string.
In practice, bass strings have to be thicker then treble strings, this results in a higher tension on the bass strings (for instance the tension of a string of a bass guitar is almost twice as high as a string of guitar).
As a rule of thumb I use a 62/100 ratio between two strings and this works well.
The step between a wound and plain steel string may be a little bit wider, like 60/100, but it is not that critical.

Your starting point for your thickest / lowest string depends on your lowest note and stringlength.
But if you use a six string bass with a regular stringlength (34") the following gauges would be workable:
Low C (half step above low B) .120
G .075
D .045
A 0.026
E 0.016
B 0.10
If a gauge isn't available choose the nearest available, it isn't all that critical.

If you have an other setup in mind let me know.

Hans
Last edited by Broomy on Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge

ssj71
Established Member
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:36 pm

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby ssj71 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:57 pm

Broomy wrote:Creating some PDf files using Lilypond and LaTEX and place them there


I would consider making a github or bitbucket account and placing the source there. That will welcome collaborations and allow it to be a "growing" document.

As mentioned by asbak, Use as many venues for promotion as possible. Blog, youtube channel, in your signature of forums, shameless self plugs on IRC, wherever. Obviously its up to you where that line between helpfully informative and spammy annoyance is, but its a good idea to use multiple channels and mediums for promotion.

Broomy wrote:So would it be necessary to show the chords and scales in all the different keys

I would probably teach a principle, then explicitly show it applied to everything. That way the lazy can just find and read the scale they want, but people really trying to learn will see the better way. Similarly I'd have a basics section and then an advanced that extends the ideas, like showing more exotic scales. This way people can just skip the advanced stuff if they aren't ready for it, but the book is still helpful for advanced pupils. You could set up latex to have 2 different versions of the book, beginners and complete.

apathity wrote:I would recommend write a couple easy to learn riffs and songs in this tuning and also release TAB and sheets for the songs.

+1
_ssj71

music: https://soundcloud.com/ssj71
My plugins are Infamous! http://ssj71.github.io/infamousPlugins
I just want to get back to making music!

Broomy
Established Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby Broomy » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:11 pm

ssj71 wrote:I would probably teach a principle, then explicitly show it applied to everything. That way the lazy can just find and read the scale they want, but people really trying to learn will see the better way. Similarly I'd have a basics section and then an advanced that extends the ideas, like showing more exotic scales. This way people can just skip the advanced stuff if they aren't ready for it, but the book is still helpful for advanced pupils. You could set up latex to have 2 different versions of the book, beginners and complete.

That's a good suggestion. Right now I'm reading a guitar book, which has some good Ideas, but after one idea is shown, it is written out in all 12 keys. The book can be condensed to 1/12th of its size with a single remark after an idea: apply this to all 12 keys.

Right now my plan is:
1. make some video's on a regular basis (simple song arrangements, etudes, excercises, etc.) provided with TAB and sheet music (using musical-artifacts.com)
I actually made some simple videos recently;
2. Make a reference book for scales and chords, with the principles laid out and some appendixes with the whole shebang transposed in 12 key (which is doable with Lilypond) (with a optionally sourceforge of github account if there's interest in the source files);
3. Make "noise" when something is updated or posted, here there and everywhere.
Oh, and (minor detail)...
4. Learn to play with the tuning myself... ;-)

Thanks guys for your feedback so far.

Hans
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge

Broomy
Established Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby Broomy » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:04 am

I'm working on the scale and chord book (and I'm impressed of the possibilities Lilypond and LaTEX have).
I've created a sourceforge project: https://sourceforge.net/projects/the-quintar-project/

I need some advice on the best way to manage my files.

What I do now is work on my book offline. The "book" consists of a mainfile with LyTEX sourcecode and several .ly files and some image files. When I compile the file there are several (mostly pdf) files made which are then used to be merged in the final output file.
I've made a simple directory structure with one parent directory and three subdirectories:
1. containing Lilypond files
2. Images
3. Output files
The parent directory contains the sourcecode
When I change the sourcecode and compile the document this effects several files in "Output files" directory.

What is the best way to update my files on sourceforge:
- Delete all the old files and replace them for the newer?
- Use a similar method as is used for software, where it is possible to track the edits? And if so how is this to be done?

Hans
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge

Broomy
Established Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby Broomy » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:10 pm

I've used Git to place the stuff there and all works well.

I would love to get some feedback on my rough and dirty layout of the Chord and Scale book.
The chords shown in the chords section are mostly dummies, but you'll get the idea.

Hans
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge

Broomy
Established Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:36 am

Chords and Scalesbook done + short retune tutorial

Postby Broomy » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:20 pm

The Chords- and Scalesbook is ready (scroll down to the readme section).
I've also uploaded a video on how to retune a nylon acoustic to an All Fifths Tuning.

Hans
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge

emarsk
Established Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:50 pm

Re: Advice on All Fifths Tuning for guitar manual

Postby emarsk » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:08 pm

Just a side-note that may be of interest: Robert Fripp and Trey Gunn (if don't know who they are, fix that NOW!) use the "new standard tuning" which is a tuning by fifths with the highest two strings tuned by a minor third (to mitigate the problem of having the highest string too fragile).
Please, avoid some common spelling errors:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling


Return to “Music Theory/Songwriting”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests