Move KXStudio to ArchLinux?

[urlwolf]

Anybody using fedora or similar rpm distro has tried Planet CCRMA?

[tux99]

but since my personal belief is a studio should always be built on a 'Stable' distro I'm kind of a lone wolf

You are not alone, I 100% agree with you, that's why I'm using CentOS 6 as base distro

but since many people on this forum seem interested (perhaps even obsessed) with bleeding edge stuff

To my surprise I found out that it's perfectly possible to have bleeding edge applications on a stable and older base distro, I have yet to find any major program that doesn't build on Centos 6 despite Centos 6 is now 3 years old (ok some programs require some tweaking, but the wast majority builds without any problems).
See my personal audio/video repository for CentOS if you don't believe me: http://pkgrepo.linuxtech.net/el6/

[ssj71]

WOW. What a thread! Too much to say. I voted No.

I don't know anything about Arch. My brother in law used it for a while. Then after a few weeks of happy use, he updated (without reading the notes), broke something, then reinstalled. Another week of fine updates. Updated. Broke something. Went back to Mint. He's not really a linux guy at all, but I think his ability and dedication to maintenance is shared by a majority of potential linux audio users (and many current ones). So I hesitate about using Arch myself let alone as what to recommend to my friends. Can't really comment on any other distros because I haven't really used anything but Ubuntu based for more than 15 minutes.

BUT falkTX does a RIDICULOUS amount of work, packaging, maintaining and supporting KXstudio. He spends a lot of time developing new apps (i.e. Cadence) but the hours of just packaging and testing makes it impossible to extend this to multiple distros that use other packaging systems at the same time. Falk is likely to become a lot busier soon starting a new job IIUC, and so I really think the decision should be made based on what allows him to get the most done with his VALUABLE time. Part of me says, just support LTS releases, but I do use the latest edition of Ubuntu for work and I like to have the KXstudio PPAs so that I can make some tunes while I eat lunch. SO THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER! I think its valuable to support the casual user. I started out as an Ubuntu newb who dabbled and got hooked. 14.04 is still a year out and we aren't stuck with our decision, its just the overhead of the jump.

If the move is political, that's fine, but keep in mind that the maintenance/support time for the developer is probably proportional to that of the user. I don't usually spend much time maintaining my Ubuntu machine. Some people's results vary, but I don't.

Finally I just want to say, thanks, Falk. You rock.

[Capoeira]

I don't know why people always think Arch uses unstable software. they use the latest STABLE version from the upstream of determinadet software.

[autostatic]

I don't know why people always think Arch uses unstable software. they use the latest STABLE version from the upstream of determinadet software.

Nobody said Arch is using unstable software.

[Capoeira]

I don't know why people always think Arch uses unstable software. they use the latest STABLE version from the upstream of determinadet software.

Nobody said Arch is using unstable software.

to me it seams that people think: bleading edge = unstable
but ok, that´s not the topic

[ssj71]

not that arch is unstable, but it requires some effort (reading the notes before updates) that many users won't be willing to do.

[wolftune]

not that arch is unstable, but it requires some effort (reading the notes before updates) that many users won't be willing to do.

Well, there's been mention of other options: Mageia and Chakra (not to mention plain old Debian). Chakra is Ubuntu-style in terms of user-friendliness but is forked from Arch. If the KXStudio work to support Arch applied directly to Chakra, that would answer your concerns probably. [speaking speculatively as someone who hasn't actually tried these things]

Incidentally, I found out that Parabola is so compatible with Arch that you can follow instructions to directly modify an existing Arch system to make it into Parabola. Thus, support for Arch is the one alternative to Ubuntu for the best fully-free options. Trisquel is nearing release for v. 6 based on Ubuntu 12.04, so that should work with KXStudio now, but it looks like Parabola is possibly more solid and up-to-date. The other fully-free distros don't seem as active or robust.
see: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

So, I'm not dogmatic, and I'll stick with KXStudio, but given all these issues, if there is indeed reason to stop being dependent on Ubuntu and Canonical etc., I'm leaning toward Arch as the way to go as long as KXStudio works for those who want to go with Parabola (I suspect this would be fine overall) and also those who want a more newbie-friendly option in Chakra (or KXStudio does whatever it takes to make the KXStudio as a distro be equal or better than Chakra; seems once you go Arch, it should be easier to borrow anything you like from Chakra…)

[tatch]

I just want to "bump" tarrasque's argument for not moving, arch is a nice system and all but ubuntu is definitely the most popular (and it'll probably continue to gain popularity), and both of those are equally important if you think about ways for KXStudio to increase its userbase.

Also I'm kind of unsure about the difference between KXStudio and Cadence and Carla, are they all officially separate now, and what does KXStudio encompass if not the Cadence/Carla tools? Because I think people running arch are technically proficient enough to install KX apps by themselves and as far as I'm aware they're already in the AUR.

[looplog]

Just to be clear so that no one else takes me out of context, I am not bashing Arch. I love Arch. It fits me like a glove. I'll continue to use it for as long as it works for me. I don't think Arch is unstable, and I love rolling release. I don't have a problem with the forums, nor the philosophy behind Arch or its attitude to learning. When I want support I don't need friendliness or hand holding - I want direct and to the point technical assistance, which the Arch forums excel at providing. So I support Arch as a distro fully.

I just don't think Arch fits the idea of a general purpose music production distro.

People talking about Chakra are missing the point slightly. Chakra is not Arch, and is not even really Arch based besides the fact that it grew out of Arch originally. It *is* Pacman based, but there is no guarantee it will stay that way. So if you go with Chakra, you do not really get access to the knowledge resource of the Arch forums. Many Arch forums members are quite plain about it - they do not support Arch derivatives. There is also no guarantee that the help in the Arch wiki, one of Arch's greatest resources, will always apply to everything in Chakra either. So far as I know, Chakra is not directly compatible with the AUR either, so there goes that advantage.

So to go with Arch and retain access to existing community resources, my understanding is that you need to stay pure Arch. Even Archbang has its own support forums, because it has been stated again and again that the Arch forums are only for supporting Arch. I've read multiple times that the devs for Arch don't want to have to deal with users who are not prepared to edit their own config files, read regular system maintenance newsletters and keep up with general system related happenings. I dig that. It keeps Arch focused on a specific audience - self-sufficient tech users. There are music users who are also these kind of tech users, but the overlap is not that big.

I'm not going to say that Arch couldn't work, ever, for KXStudio. I just think Falk would have to take on a bigger load in the transition process, and I'd much rather see him working on his excellent music production toolchain than dealing with distro related issues.

If a transition does have to happen, I really think a more broadly focused distro should be considered. Apparently openSUSE is out of the question, which I think is a real shame, because it seems to have one of the most powerful toolchains for distro management in linux today, a broadly helpful community, a past pedigree as a focused general purpose audio distro, a focus on KDE, and one of the main Linux audio devs as an existing user.

Anyway, I'll keep my vote for Arch. I just hope that all of us who voted for Arch will be willing to get behind Falk and help him out should the transition prove to be not as simple as some here imply that it will be.

[skavar]

... I think there is all kinds of room in Debian-land for something like KXStudio, perhaps we could even collaborate on some stuff with all that Ubuntu-specific stuff out of the way.

While it is true that Debian Sid slows down a bit during the last phases of freezing and preparing the new Debian Stable releases the rest of the time it is right on the cutting edge with Debian testing not far behind, in fact Testing is very much in line with what the in-between non-LTS Ubuntu releases are doing anyway.

Anyway just wanted to clear the air... falkTX you're welcome to live in Debian-land as far as I'm concerned!

This...
would be the best option in my opinion.

If some collaboration could be formed then the user base would swell immediately I suspect.

[ToddMWorth]

Oh... the archwiki is amazing. Simply amazing. The archwiki alone is almost enough to /thread . LOL

[wolftune]

... I think there is all kinds of room in Debian-land for something like KXStudio, perhaps we could even collaborate on some stuff with all that Ubuntu-specific stuff out of the way.

While it is true that Debian Sid slows down a bit during the last phases of freezing and preparing the new Debian Stable releases the rest of the time it is right on the cutting edge with Debian testing not far behind, in fact Testing is very much in line with what the in-between non-LTS Ubuntu releases are doing anyway.

Anyway just wanted to clear the air... falkTX you're welcome to live in Debian-land as far as I'm concerned!

This...
would be the best option in my opinion.

If some collaboration could be formed then the user base would swell immediately I suspect.

Count me in as happy to support a move to Debian if it could be as optimal as some suggest. But, for that matter, I'll stick with KXStudio if it stays with the Ubuntu family. It's just good that there's alternatives so nobody can totally dictate everything. At any rate, I was just reading a bunch of Planet Ubuntu blog stuff and it's clear that Ubuntu is feeling the push back. Maybe they'll get the message that they can't go too far. Might want to wait and see if Canonical's direction is pure PR or actually has substance. If they make real changes to address people's concerns, then maybe it's worth it to stick with them. I do want to have simple things like playdeb as carrots to newbies and more.

[looplog]

Might want to wait and see if Canonical's direction is pure PR or actually has substance. If they make real changes to address people's concerns, then maybe it's worth it to stick with them. I do want to have simple things like playdeb as carrots to newbies and more.

It also could be worth waiting to see if some of the proposed changes by Ubuntu turn out to actually be good. I don't like the closed door development that has been going on, but I see some possibility for good things to come out of the direction they are proposing. Unity moving to QT/QML is potentially one of these. And to be honest, although I don't consider X.org server to be broken, it is plain that some competition among X11 implementations could spur innovation and development on the Linux desktop. Wayland is kind of competition and kind of not, given its close ties to X.org, so Mir may not be the end of the world after all.

[skavar]

It also could be worth waiting to see if some of the proposed changes by Ubuntu turn out to actually be good. I don't like the closed door development that has been going on, but I see some possibility for good things to come out of the direction they are proposing. Unity moving to QT/QML is potentially one of these. And to be honest, although I don't consider X.org server to be broken, it is plain that some competition among X11 implementations could spur innovation and development on the Linux desktop. Wayland is kind of competition and kind of not, given its close ties to X.org, so Mir may not be the end of the world after all.

Well you may be right, but I left Ubuntu after the introduction of the Gnome3/Unity balls-up which I did not appreciate and moved to Debian Sid which I really liked... and my audio needs were taken care of by AVLinux. With the announced passing of updates to AVLinux I thought to try KXStudio, even though I really did not want to move back to a Ubuntu based system, Ubuntu had lost my trust, but KXStudio is so good that I swallowed my pride and have been happy and productive over the past few months. Now Ubuntu is at it again, and I will be glad to leave it behind. Just not so glad to go towards Arch.

My 19 yr old daughter is my distro litmus test. She is a savvy young drummer and composer, has just won the New Zealand School prize for young fine artist, photographs and designs cd art for other bands, and plays in two working bands. All this and her recording has been done in AVLinux with LXDE, and now KXStudio with XFCE. She is typical of her artistic peers, computer and media literate but only maintains facebook pages to showcase her and her bands work, doesn't want a flashy desktop, just wants something that works and that can be updated with the minimum of fuss. There is no way that she would be interested in Arch, its way too much trouble for no more in return. These guys don't like flashy sports cars, they like boxy, reliable, and cheap.

That is a summary of my reasoning for wanting to leave Ubuntu, but only in the direction of 'boxy and reliable'. Mir may become just what is needed, and when that happens, it is sure to be ported to Debian.

Regards
skavar