YALS-e17 0.5.0

What other apps and distros do you use to round out your studio?

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i2productions
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Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.3.0

Post by i2productions »

I have a tremendous amount of respect for falkTX(and all the open-source developers that make this happen.) But is falk going to create other iso's for people to try? The impression I have gotten is no. And that's ok. He's an amazing programer and he can make his distro anything he wants it to be. But if he didn't intend on other desktops besides KDE(and XFCE), there wouldn't be easily accesible repos. All I'm saying is that they work as designed, out of the box. I honestly wouldn't want my desktop changes sent back upstream unless it helps fix some type of bug. New users that go through the whole setup process for themselves should be free to make there own desktop changes to their tastes. In the case of e17 however, a desktop is an obscure concept. You can choose several presets when you first install it, but you can also start with a blank canvas and nothing on the desktop, as I did, and start building it any way you want with 'shelves'. I just built one that had all the same tools in all the same places as the other desktops I've built to create symatry. With all the different ways to launch programs in e17, a 'default build' is a moot point(in my iso there's 4 ways to launch cadence alone!) I'm just going to say it one last time, THESE ISOS ARE MEANT FOR TESTING PURPOSES! They are installable, but you should build your own setup.
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Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.3.0

Post by wolftune »

i2productions wrote:I have a tremendous amount of respect for falkTX(and all the open-source developers that make this happen.) But is falk going to create other iso's for people to try? The impression I have gotten is no.
You didn't ask. He actually offered to make me a custom ISO when I didn't even ask for one. I didn't even want one, I just want to make KXStudio the best. But when I talked about things I wanted, he went ahead and offered to make me a custom install (which I didn't take him up on, instead I talked to him about improving the main system).

All I'm saying is that they work as designed, out of the box. I honestly wouldn't want my desktop changes sent back upstream unless it helps fix some type of bug. New users that go through the whole setup process for themselves should be free to make there own desktop changes to their tastes.
Then why are you putting out ISO's?? Why wouldn't you just post something like, "hey guys, LXDE works great! You should try it!"
In the case of e17 however, a desktop is an obscure concept. You can choose several presets when you first install it, but you can also start with a blank canvas and nothing on the desktop, as I did, and start building it any way you want with 'shelves'. I just built one that had all the same tools in all the same places as the other desktops I've built to create symatry. With all the different ways to launch programs in e17, a 'default build' is a moot point(in my iso there's 4 ways to launch cadence alone!) I'm just going to say it one last time, THESE ISOS ARE MEANT FOR TESTING PURPOSES! They are installable, but you should build your own setup.
That's all fine! Really, it's fine! But if you talk to falkTX before releasing, he'll help you do it even better or work with you to make the process go well and bring up things you didn't know about. He might even help make scripts to help others install E17 including your adjustments without having to do a full ISO install. The point is that if your testing ISO is a good way to go, even just for testing, then falkTX is an expert who can help you decide how and whether to do it, so he's asking you to check with him, mostly just so everyone has the best experience and so that he can incorporate the best suggestions you have as appropriate.

Is there anything wrong with that? Or any reason not to take him up on that and talk to him before you release things? If you end up deciding that you don't agree with his concerns, then you could release anyway, but at least you know what the concerns are. But you should get to the point where falkTX is convinced that at least you understand what he was trying to tell you.

Respectfully,
Aaron
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Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.3.0

Post by i2productions »

wolftune wrote:That's all fine! Really, it's fine! But if you talk to falkTX before releasing, he'll help you do it even better or work with you to make the process go well and bring up things you didn't know about.
That's what we're doing right here. The only reason I have any releases in the wild is to give people a chance to try it out. Notice I haven't posted a new one in a few days. I'm waiting for people to test it. Give me their impressions, and then merge them, destroy them, make them better. This is a very small project with this thread and my dropbox(which is actually a good stable high speed download) as it's only means of existence. I've heard falkTX's and everyone else's concerns. The more people can actually test it and get back to me with how to make it better, the quicker I can get all the data together. Tonight I intend to start moving all the welcome data to a pdf, and writing a WHOLE lot more. I'm not going to release any new isos for a while til people actually test it and report back. I have ideas of how to make them better already, and I've already implemented your feedback into a future release of my primary version of YALS, wolftune. I would really like to hear from people using the tools in a live session. It's a download and a USB stick live install away. Let's make this something that everyone can be happy with, and proud of, and that has the proper chain of things.

@falkTX
I'll get you everything you require in time. Not til a 1.0 iso release though. Kinda useless til we hear from everyone.
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Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.3.0

Post by wolftune »

falkTX wrote:
i2productions wrote:@falkTX
I'll get you everything you require in time. Not til a 1.0 iso release though. Kinda useless til we hear from everyone.
You know you would&will get a LOT more people and feedback if you do things with me, "officially" (whatever that means to you anyway).

If there was already some meta-package to install (even if it was just depends e17-desktop), we could make a new post and listen for feedback there.
Current KXStudio users would just need to install 1 package, and re-login to the new desktop. I bet this is something most users will be willing to do instead of a full 2Gb download and 2 reboots.

Heck, I would even install that myself and try it out! e17 sounds like another good desktop.
Right on! Count me in! I have way too much to do. If there is eventually an E17 option as an extra within the main KXStudio, I'll be happy to test it. And if there will be such a thing in a matter of months or something, I will wait. I'm not really that excited about testing lots of ISO's that I then just throw away. I am definitely interested in a super-lightweight way to go, and I like the way you, i2, are going in some ways. I don't want too much distraction from improving KXStudio overall though. My wish is that i2productions will work on figuring out all these details about E17 in the way that falkTX asks and so it helps KXStudio get an E17 option without falkTX taking too much time away from Cadence and other important things.

Cheers!
Aaron Wolf
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Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.3.0

Post by tux99 »

wolftune wrote: And I'd love it if tux99 happens to come around and agree and clarify that he didn't want to take sides, but he seems so far more interested in being indignant than it helping people get along.
You are very much distorting what I'm saying, I'm not taking sides with anyone, in fact personally I'm not at all interested in YALS as I have no need for it, but I'm fed up of seeing a few people on this forum attacking others, I'm a member of many forums (mostly related to FOSS) and I have rarely seen so much bashing and negativity on those other forums as here recently,
I really think the mods should intervene more often to tell off people like brummer (but he isn't the only one) in order to restore a more relaxed and friendly atmosphere on this forum.
Wolftune, I realise you are trying to restore calm here too, but you are looking at brummers posts with rose tinted glasses and that doesn't help.
Anyway, I leave you to it, I won't comment on this matter anymore to avoid polluting this thread even more.

One last thing, I think it would be best if a mod splits out brummer's posts and the replies to it into a separate thread, to clean up this thread.
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Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.3.0

Post by i2productions »

Hey tux, it's all good, really. I totally agree with you that it's over the top, but he can say whatever he pleases. He makes some great software I really enjoy. Just going to keep my head down and keep going.
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Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.3.0

Post by StudioDave »

tux99 wrote:.. I'm fed up of seeing a few people on this forum attacking others, I'm a member of many forums (mostly related to FOSS) and I have rarely seen so much bashing and negativity on those other forums as here recently...
I don't mind some heat, but I'm seeing a lot of injudicious posts on LM these days. However, I disagree that the moderators should step in more often. The kill filters here work, and I use them liberally. I come here for solid helpful information - if I want half-formed opinion and ill-advised commentary I'll have my wife talk to me. I don't think I need a moderator's assistance to get rid of an annoying poster. But it might be nice to have a mod around when my wife's boring me to tears. :)

Btw, I happen to have great respect for brummer. Yes, he is allowed his opinion, regardless whether I agree with him. Yes, I'd like to see more common/community efforts in development. No, the GPL doesn't stipulate manners, civility, good character, getting along with each other, or even "doing the right thing". It's a legal document written to protect the rights of users, and that's all it is (and that's a lot). Everyone should read it again, get over our individual misconceptions (a.k.a. personal interpretations) about it, and move on.

Best,

dp
brummer

Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.3.0

Post by brummer »

Okay so we need to let pur childs make the same mistakes again. :|
brummer

Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.3.0

Post by brummer »

falkTX wrote:
brummer wrote:Okay so we need to let pur childs make the same mistakes again. :|
It's no use, you'll always be the bad guy (in this topic at least) :lol:

I said what I had to say, now I'll just wait
No wory, i know were i am. I have No problem with being the bad One. :wink:
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Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.3.0

Post by i2productions »

I've started the pdf version of documention. I'm quickly realizing that I need to make this a quick-start guide, and then branch off into larger topics with other expanded documentation. In writing this I'm writing it in such as way that if the first page(or 2 as time goes on) is removed the entire document becomes a quick-start guide for kxstudio in general. You will also notice that to address concerns posted here I've recommended against using these as an installation media. At this time they are only meant for alternate desktop testing of kxstudio. I would like any input I could get on my rough draft documentation. The next step will be writing in depth pdf's for each cadence tool. The documentation is really what I intend on contributing upstream, if possible.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/84658052/YALS% ... eneric.pdf

P.S. Will have some new isos out in the next few days. I appreciate all the feedback!
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Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.3.0

Post by wolftune »

i2productions wrote:I've started the pdf version of documention. I'm quickly realizing that I need to make this a quick-start guide, and then branch off into larger topics with other expanded documentation. In writing this I'm writing it in such as way that if the first page(or 2 as time goes on) is removed the entire document becomes a quick-start guide for kxstudio in general. You will also notice that to address concerns posted here I've recommended against using these as an installation media. At this time they are only meant for alternate desktop testing of kxstudio. I would like any input I could get on my rough draft documentation. The next step will be writing in depth pdf's for each cadence tool. The documentation is really what I intend on contributing upstream, if possible.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/84658052/YALS% ... eneric.pdf

P.S. Will have some new isos out in the next few days. I appreciate all the feedback!
Now, after all this discussion, you are aware, aren't you, that falkTX already has substantial documentation in progress and planned for improvements right? So if you could add your comments and coordinate with him it will make for the best overall documentation… :wink: See: http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/KXStudio:Applications and the links for each application

Cheers
Aaron Wolf
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Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.3.0

Post by i2productions »

Yes I am. But right now theres no quickstart guide. And the documentation currently doesn't get in depth into what some of the programs do. I'm developing these for my isos, and falkTX can decide when the time is right, whether or not it belongs in documentation. Same goes for the tutorial videos I'm laying out right now, and the same as the whole YALS distro in general. I'm merely putting it out into the universe, and what is done with it, is done.

BTW I'll have YALS-e17-0.5.0 posted later today. It runs in even less RAM. On my netbook it starts in 80 Megs of RAM! Yet everything feels snappier and more cohesive now. Tell me we can tweak KDE to achieve that? Also changed all 4 virtual desktop backgrounds to a different KXStudio background(Sorry falk Miku's on VD 2, I didn't feel like she belonged on the first page> :lol: ) It also seems to double my netbook battery life over linux mint. This thing just keeps amazing me!
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Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.5.0

Post by i2productions »

Port to sourceforge is complete for Yals-e17. Will bring other builds up to date over the next few days and upload those as well. But this e17 desktop really is something brilliant the whole way around. e17 still isn't my favorite desktop, but it's very nice for getting audio work done in low power. I'd love to know who's been downloading but not reporting? Dropbox has a 20 Gig/Day download limit PER FILE. I didn't think more than 10 downloads a day per file would occur at this stage, but I guess more people are interested than I thought.
brummer

Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.5.0

Post by brummer »

i2productions wrote: Dropbox cut off my downloads. Even if I paid them, the amount of downloads in the last few days would violate their terms of service.
brummer wrote:which you present to us on a dropbox account, and still believe you do something good for the linux community :( . . . . I'm speechless . . .
:wink:
i2productions wrote:Port to sourceforge is complete for Yals-e17.
Are you sure?
May it would help you if you read the sourceforge terms of use before you receive a mail from sourceforge with the very same meaning. :lol:
To give you a hint:
terms of use wrote:By submitting Code to SourceForge.net, you certify that your Code is in compliance with the OSI-Approved or compliant license that you designate, and you hereby represent and warrant that you have all rights, licenses and consents necessary to grant Dice and other users the rights and licenses granted herein, and under the OSI-Approved or compliant license you designate, without infringement of any third party rights. In addition, the Code that you submit must also be made available in human-readable (i.e., “Source Code”) form. Whenever reasonably feasible, you agree that you will make Source Code available on or via SourceForge.net corresponding to Code that you post, submit, display or distribute. You must make Source Code available for all portions of Code that you have modified, enhanced or otherwise created derivative works from (with any such modification or derivative work being a “Change”).
As well, today, after you have modified the entry post 39 times, you still fail to mention the license under which you distribute your product.

Well, I would like to start a competition for the heaviest edited forum post ever for all internet forums, any language, any content. Your entry post here is still my favorite :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: YALS-0.7.3, LXDE 0.4.0, e17 0.5.0

Post by i2productions »

Hey brummer, this is the ONLY source of info on YALS, so yes I edit the top post all the time with new download info, bugs, beta info, etc. This thing has this ONE thread and sourceforge as it's existence. You're right I haven't gotten around to the legality side of the distro, and if sourceforge wants to take it down before I complete the entire process, they are more than welcome to. This is just a nice set of testing isos, that I want to release into the world. I never thought they would garner the attention that they already have. Hence why I wasn't worried about it being hosted on dropbox. They have a rather reasonable cap for free download space. More people than are letting on are trying this thing. I felt it best to release it into the world first, get feedback then deal with the fallout. That's all I have to say about that. There's not much difference between my "distro" and the stock KXStudio, except for the fact that it's not KDE. Falk already makes all the source available, that aspect(as to my understanding) of GPL is covered(which I realize I haven't made a license yet). As soon as I make the meta-packages for changes to the desktops and send them back upstream to the KXStudio repos, the rest of your concerns are taken care of. Why do you feel the constant need to harass me about this project? It's just a nice set of testing ISO's, and I'm getting there on all the little pieces that make it. But I would rather have a good product ready, and see if there's any interest in a new distro in the market before I put all my chips on the table. Like I've said all throughout this post, give me time to make everything right, and everyone happy. I really am trying to comply with everyone's wishes. If I knew no one was trying this I might just abandon the project. But finding out I'm getting more than 10 downloads a day PER ISO tells me there's at least a small niche market interested in testing beyond the current choices offered. Just, for the love of God, GIVE ME TIME! This project is only a week old. There will be countless more edits to the top thread until the project either dies, or moves on to its own forum. Calm down, and let's all work on this together?!
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