Harrison Mixbus is now available for Linux

[funkmuscle]

Harrison Mixbus is now available for Linux
http://ardour.org/node/4205

[autostatic]

On the one hand I'm like cool! A commercial manufacturer bothering with Linux!
On the other hand I have the big discussions between Nedko (jack-dbus, a2jmidid, ladish etc.) on the one side and Paul and Torben (Jack1, Ardour, Tschack) on the other side in the back of my head where Nedko implies Ardour is doing a lot of damage to the Linux audio community. And in a way I think he's right and this Harrison thing could make it worse.

Best,

Jeremy

[funkmuscle]

kinda like how I feel when I see something made for linux and once it's on other platforms, linux takes a backseat..
I don't wanna get into this again as I started a thread here a while ago and it was taken way out of content...

I just hate seeing such and such app for Windows, OSX and Linux.. all of a sudden, Linux is listed last on apps that were created for Linux first.. dunno, just bothers me... it's that feeling that the other 2 platforms are superior so let's show them some respect..

But I like what Ardour is doing with Mixbus... or what Mixbus is doing for Ardour and Linux... just shows that Linux is finally being taken as a serious OS....especially for audio.

[brummer]

on the other side in the back of my head where Nedko implies Ardour is doing a lot of damage to the Linux audio community.

I would split it a bit, for the Linux Audio Community, this is a great addition to the existing tools, but for the Open Source Community it's a bit like a "kick in the ass", it leaves a bitter taste.

[funkmuscle]

the thing is once Linux gets more respect from the users of the other platforms, the commercial world will come knocking... expect more

it is a blow but maybe the open source may not be able to come up with something like that due to time, money, etc... for Linux to be a serious player in pro audio, we may need serious gear...

[brummer]

it is a blow but maybe the open source may not be able to come up with something like that due to time, money, etc... for Linux to be a serious player in pro audio, we may need serious gear..

It indicate that most users are willing to pay for a Close Source app to a vendor, but not willing to pay/contribute for Open Source development. That's the kick in the ass feeling I mean. It's the capitalism way of life.
And also, there is a diff between Linux and Open Source, and this becomes a bit greater now, and possible more and more in the near future.
What I love on Linux is, that it is Open Source, not just that it is Linux.

[linuxdsp]

I think ardour / mixbus is a good example of the way open source and commercial applications can integrate in a way that is beneficial to both. And with linux you have the choice - if your politics or point of view dictate that open source is the way to go then that's fine, ardour is an open source project with many fine open source plugins etc. If you just like using linux (in preference to another platform) then this is another addition to the tools available that allow you to get the job done using your chosen platform.
In the case of mixbus, only the DSP is closed, other changes to the ardour code base get passed back to ardour and vice-versa. And if I understand correctly, ardour benefits financially which will help further the development of ardour, A3 etc.
It also sends a clear message that linux can be a serious platform for professional audio, and that in turn may get the attention of, for example, hardware manufacturers, and realistically, linux audio does need some input from more pro audio interface companies.
And, if it helps show what *can* be done using linux, that may inspire more open source projects to 'compete' (if that's the right word) and continue to improve what they can do too.

[thorgal]

Hello, I have been very silent for a while and am still very far from having the freedom I used to enjoy w.r.t my own music project (complete standby for ~ a year, and my wife and I are expecting a second child my mid-August Maybe I'll resume my music work when I am 50 ... )
Anyway, here are my 2 cents:

linux is mainly the kernel (the GNU stuff around is, well, GNU). And who do you think contribute the most to the kernel development ? ... guess ... yes, companies that have very specific needs and see in linux a very flexible and fast moving platform for their products. So this discussion is a little off mark because linux wouldn't be here today without all these commercial companies (e.g. Intel just to name one). I agree with linuxdsp, linux is about choice and allows you to apply whatever moral ethics you may have.

I also don't understand or see the damage caused by Ardour according to Nedko. What's the problem ? And about ardour-mixbus: the Mixbus owners and Paul Davis can agree on whatever pleases them. That's just fine if you don't agree. Ardour remains open-source and available to anyone who bothers going through the compilation process (or through a distro prepackaging it). I would also guess that Paul Davis reaps a part of the benefits Mixbus is drawing. So buying Mixbus if such is your decision is also a way to support Paul Davis, isn't it ? And maybe one day, when Mixbus retires or whatever, maybe the closed-source DSP will be opened and available in Ardour. Same for the linuxDSP plugins. No one said they would remain closed forever ...

OK, back to my diapers (@Autostatic: is yours already on solid food ? did you notice the change in the poop ? ... wait until he's ~ one year old ... it will become hell )

[brummer]

I also don't understand or see the damage caused by Ardour according to Nedko.

That's why I said you must split this argument, for Linux Audio, it's great, a good to have, but for the Open Source Community it isn't the same. I guess that's what Nedko wont to say.
Linux !=OpenSource.

linux is mainly the kernel (the GNU stuff around is, well, GNU). And who do you think contribute the most to the kernel development ? ... guess ... yes, companies that have very specific needs and see in linux a very flexible and fast moving platform for their products. So this discussion is a little off mark because linux wouldn't be here today without all these commercial companies (e.g. Intel just to name one).

It isn't about about money, nor about company’s, it's about to make a secret out of the knowledge, that's what Open Source try to defend, and the Kernel is ? ... guess ... yes, Open Source

[autostatic]

Well, from what I've understood is that some people fear that with the arrival of Harrison Mixbus the focus on Ardour will even get bigger, ie. more LV2 plugins that use GTK but also more and more functionality that should be part of JACK that gets implemented in Ardour instead. But I'm unable to follow all discussions closely so I might've missed something. I'd love to know and hear more about it though.

Best,

Jeremy

@thorgal, nine months now so he's on solid food. I think I prefer the current poopies over the pre-solid-food ones

[funkmuscle]

as long as the freedom is still there, all is good... both sides have good arguments.
Many Linux apps are ready for serious pro audio so they're now getting the attention of the commercials companies. It was only a matter of time.
I'm on the fence with this. Better support for hardware would be the biggest bonus IMO...

[thorgal]

Well, from what I've understood is that some people fear that with the arrival of Harrison Mixbus the focus on Ardour will even get bigger, ie. more LV2 plugins that use GTK but also more and more functionality that should be part of JACK that gets implemented in Ardour instead.

reading the jack-devel list from time to time, it is not my impression. The UI issue will be (is being) addressed by Torben Hohn I think. I quickly read something about it, that he could provide a wrapper lib that will allow decoupling between hosts and plugin GUI lib.

@thorgal, nine months now so he's on solid food. I think I prefer the current poopies over the pre-solid-food ones

hehe, just wait ...

[kaimerra]

I think ardour / mixbus is a good example of the way open source and commercial applications can integrate in a way that is beneficial to both. And with linux you have the choice - if your politics or point of view dictate that open source is the way to go then that's fine, ardour is an open source project with many fine open source plugins etc. If you just like using linux (in preference to another platform) then this is another addition to the tools available that allow you to get the job done using your chosen platform.
In the case of mixbus, only the DSP is closed, other changes to the ardour code base get passed back to ardour and vice-versa. And if I understand correctly, ardour benefits financially which will help further the development of ardour, A3 etc.
It also sends a clear message that linux can be a serious platform for professional audio, and that in turn may get the attention of, for example, hardware manufacturers, and realistically, linux audio does need some input from more pro audio interface companies.
And, if it helps show what *can* be done using linux, that may inspire more open source projects to 'compete' (if that's the right word) and continue to improve what they can do too.

I would agree you with you on this one. The benifits are going both ways in this relationship. It's not like they stole Ardour code and ran away to make lots of profit, Harrison chosen to work with Ardour, spend time testing and implementing their product on OSX AND Linux.
I hope the Ardour team feels proud of their work because they make a hell of a DAW, and to be able to work with major player in the analog console world to make an integrated mod of their application is a good opportunity to show off.

[nedko]

On the one hand I'm like cool! A commercial manufacturer bothering with Linux!
On the other hand I have the big discussions between Nedko (jack-dbus, a2jmidid, ladish etc.) on the one side and Paul and Torben (Jack1, Ardour, Tschack) on the other side in the back of my head where Nedko implies Ardour is doing a lot of damage to the Linux audio community. And in a way I think he's right and this Harrison thing could make it worse.

Best,

Jeremy

I don't think i ever said this. And I never implied it for sure. What I said two weeks ago is "IMHO, without intent to hurt anybody`s feelings, ardour is the app that caused most damage to jack". The full IRC log, including the context can be read here: http://nedko.arnaudov.name/ardour-damage-jack.log

I never implied mixbus nor ardour in general. Nor I implied the Linux audio community. I implied that ardour needs influenced and continue to influence (IMO sometimes in a bad way) JACK design from the point of view of a developer. The talk was about multiclient apps (like non-mixer) and parallelizing the clients of single app (like it is available in jack2). Ardour has single client and wants to benefit from SMP, so it got implementation (I think it is ardour3 only) that IMO does the job that belongs to JACK.

So let me state it again. I don't think Ardour is doing damage to the Linux audio community. Quite the opposite, Ardour is one of the best apps that the community has access to. As for Mixbus, I think that it is a good thing, but I personally don't benefit from it because my workflow does not need it.

[MattKingUSA]

Mixbus? I don't even install software that isn't in the repositories. Sux, it should be free. Actually, I did install google earth, urban terror and chrome which were not in the repos. But whatevah