Mixing Corner | run #2 | Fredy V - Not Alone

Practical tips for recording, editing, and mastering.

Moderators: MattKingUSA, khz

Post Reply
User avatar
erlkönig
Established Member
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue May 31, 2022 8:58 am
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 74 times

Mixing Corner | run #2 | Fredy V - Not Alone

Post by erlkönig »

Hi all,

this is the 2nd run of our mixing workshop. On suggestion of @sunrat, the next project will be at https://cambridge-mt.com/ms/mtk/:
https://cambridge-mt.com/ms/mtk/#FredyV
As the tracks seems to lie at archive.org and seem to be no more available in a single packed file, here's a little help for downloading them:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash

wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/OH%20St_CONS.R.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/BassDI_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/BkV1D_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/BkV1_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/BkV2D_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/BkV2_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/BkV3D_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/BkV3_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/EGtr1a_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/EGtr1b_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/EKeys1a_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/EKeys1b_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/FlTom_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/HH_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/KIn_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/HH_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/KOut_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/LdV3DH_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/LdV3D_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/LdVC2_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/MonoDr_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/OH%20St_CONS.L.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/OrgODL_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/OrgODR_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/Sn_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/Tom1_CONS.wav
wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/Tom2_CONS.wav

Archive seems to throttle downloads, so be patient.
The archived site says:

Please cite “B. De Man, B. Leonard, R. King and J. D. Reiss, “An analysis and evaluation of audio features for multitrack music mixtures,” 15th International Society for Music Information Retrieval Conference (ISMIR 2014), October 2014.” when using this audio for your work.

We should have submitted links to our finished audio and session files until jan 31st 2025.

Please discuss in this thread only things that concern this song. For discussion about proceeding and everything else, please use Mixin Corner

Have a good time, and a big thank you to all that are taking part, may it be reading, listening or mixing. Everyone is invited, it's not intended to be a contest, but as a chance to learn from each other.

Have a good time :D

Last edited by erlkönig on Mon Dec 02, 2024 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Currently working with
https://www.honeysuckers.rocks/?lang=en
https://www.facebook.com/SatanicVoices2019/
Fiddling with sequencers does not evolve into music necessarily and Mac users have smelly feet and guzzle little children.

User avatar
sunrat
Established Member
Posts: 1150
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 194 times
Been thanked: 320 times

Re: Mixing Corner | run #2 | Fredy V - Not Alone

Post by sunrat »

I originally downloaded the torrent for these tracks but I just checked and there are now zero seeders. I don't still have the original so can't reseed it.
I loaded them in Mixbus ages ago but never spent much time on it, but still have all the tracks. Curiously I noted the downloads are at 96kHz so I must have downsampled to 48kHz for my session.
Simple commands using sox to convert to 48kHz (for all wav files in one directory):

Code: Select all

mkdir 48k
for i in *.wav; do sox -SG "$i" -r 48000 48k/"$i"; done

And if you want to import OH as a stereo track instead of 2 mono tracks:

Code: Select all

sox OH\ St_CONS.L.wav OH\ St_CONS.R.wav -c 2 OH_Stereo.wav -M

I don't think there's an internal Ardour way to do that. Import the single stereo file instead of the 2 L/R files, it will appear as a stereo track in editor and mixer (but Ardour will store it as 2 separate files in interchange).

@erlkönig your script misses the right overhead :wink: :

Code: Select all

wget https://archive.org/download/FredyVNotAlone/OH%20St_CONS.R.wav

Warning - there are some real earworms in this song. I had a couple of sections swimming around my brain all day today and I hadn't even listened to the song for several days since listening to ascertain if it would be suitable to suggest here. :mrgreen:

Last edited by sunrat on Tue Dec 03, 2024 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
erlkönig
Established Member
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue May 31, 2022 8:58 am
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: Mixing Corner | run #2 | Fredy V - Not Alone

Post by erlkönig »

@sunrat
Thanks! I really didn't notice....
I added it.
...and thanks for your converter command! :thumbsup:

Currently working with
https://www.honeysuckers.rocks/?lang=en
https://www.facebook.com/SatanicVoices2019/
Fiddling with sequencers does not evolve into music necessarily and Mac users have smelly feet and guzzle little children.

User avatar
sunrat
Established Member
Posts: 1150
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 194 times
Been thanked: 320 times

Re: Mixing Corner | run #2 | Fredy V - Not Alone

Post by sunrat »

There are a few mixes of this song on the internet.
Fredy V "Not alone" mixed by Michael Grawe is excellent; I think he's a professional studio engineer.
Varsity Vol​.​1 on Bandcamp is the Fredy V album on which the official release lives. Also a great mix; the song is titled "Always Save Me" on the album. It has a touch of horns added for nice textural variety.
So the bar is already set quite high. If I can get anywhere near these mixes I'll be happy.

User avatar
sunrat
Established Member
Posts: 1150
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 194 times
Been thanked: 320 times

Re: Mixing Corner | run #2 | Fredy V - Not Alone

Post by sunrat »

How is everyone traveling with mixes of this song?
I've just been doing short sessions not changing much each time. Most of it is close to satisfactory but the guitars have been a bit tricky. The two tracks vary a bit in level and seem to float across the soundstage a bit, as well as having some delay added already. Curiously the drums spill into the guitars annoyingly, except in the outro section which must have been overdubbed later.
Also if you listen to the song on Bandcamp it is faded out and the last 30 or so seconds cut. This was a good move IMO and I'm doing the same.

novalix
Established Member
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:12 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Mixing Corner | run #2 | Fredy V - Not Alone

Post by novalix »

sunrat wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 12:39 pm

Most of it is close to satisfactory but the guitars have been a bit tricky. The two tracks vary a bit in level and seem to float across the soundstage a bit, as well as having some delay added already. Curiously the drums spill into the guitars annoyingly, except in the outro section which must have been overdubbed later.

Just had a go with it.
It seems to me the guitar performance has been recorded with two mics on the same amp (maybe pointed at two different speakers of the cabinet). One is more on the darker side the other one more crispy sounding. The latency offset does not seem to be a problem but there is still some massive phase cancellation going on if you mix the two sources together. That's a sign for a different dynamic response of the membranes of either the speakers or the mics or both.
In this case the phase changes in the frequency spectrum.

If you put an allpass filter (LSP Para to the rescue) at around 605 cycles on the darker track the mix of the two sources gets fuller and richer.

User avatar
sunrat
Established Member
Posts: 1150
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 194 times
Been thanked: 320 times

Re: Mixing Corner | run #2 | Fredy V - Not Alone

Post by sunrat »

novalix wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:50 pm

If you put an allpass filter (LSP Para to the rescue) at around 605 cycles on the darker track the mix of the two sources gets fuller and richer.

I found reversing phase on one of the mics helps a bit. Maybe it's an open-backed amp like a Twin Reverb with mics at front and back?

novalix
Established Member
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:12 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Mixing Corner | run #2 | Fredy V - Not Alone

Post by novalix »

sunrat wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2025 10:03 pm

Maybe it's an open-backed amp like a Twin Reverb with mics at front and back?

That would be a good explanation.

User avatar
sunrat
Established Member
Posts: 1150
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 194 times
Been thanked: 320 times

Re: Mixing Corner | run #2 | Fredy V - Not Alone

Post by sunrat »

Crunch time, 3 days to go! Here's my mix:
https://open.audio/library/tracks/436157

Image

Code: Select all

CNT | TYPE | NAME
  7 * LV2    ZL Equalizer (by ZL)
 22 * LV2    Airwindows Consolidated (by Airwindows)
  1 * LV2    x42-dpl - Digital Peak Limiter Stereo (by Robin Gareus)
  1 * Lua    ACE High/Low Pass Filter (by Ardour Community)
  1 * LV2    Lens (by Auburn Sounds)
  1 * LV2    LSP Slapback Delay Stereo (by LSP LV2)
  1 * LV2    x42-comp - Dynamic Compressor Stereo (by Robin Gareus)
  1 * LV2    Stereo Balance Control (by Robin Gareus)
  1 * LV2    Aether (by Dougal Stewart)
  1 * VST3   TheMasker (by Cinemystics)
  3 * LV2    LSP Gate Mono (by LSP LV2)
  8 * VST3   FirComp2 (by JonVProd)
  2 * LV2    LSP Compressor Mono (by LSP LV2)
  1 * LV2    Lens (by Auburn Sounds)
  3 * LV2    LSP Sidechain Limiter Mono (by LSP LV2) 

I shall return soon to add some details of the process. Later - and here it is:

The first thing I usually do is use region gain to lower all the track levels by at least 10dB to allow headroom for mixing, then do a basic level mix by adjusting the region gain for each track.
For this mix I experimented with top-down mix of the drums ie. get a basic drum sound just by using the OH mics and compressing them quite heavily. Then fill it out by adding individual drum channels.
Kick - I preferred the sound of the kick in mic. Compressed lightly with Fircomp2 plus Airwindows Inflamer and OrbitKick to add a bit of thump. Added a smidge of kik out.
Snare - this came mainly from OH. A bit of meat in the channel with AW Spiral2, Stonefire, and Inflamer.
HH - just highpassed at 398 Hz.
Toms - LSP Sidechain Limiter from snare to prevent snare opening gates. LSP Gate Mono then AW Inflamer and Stonefire.
OH - ZL EQ, x42 Stereo Balance, slammed into x42 comp.
Bass - ZL EQ, Fircomp2, plus a second Fircomp2 sidechained from kick.
Gtr - Tricky. Reversed phase of Egtr1B. ZL EQ, LSP Compressor fairly lightly, Stonefire.
Keys - stereo channels panned full L and R. Stonefire.
BVs - no channel plugins. Fircomp2 lightly on bus. Panned wide.
Lead V - Auburn Sounds Lens as de-esser. Fircomp2 on channel and bus.
Drum bus - AW PurestDrive for saturation.
Drum Parallel bus - Kick, Snr, Toms, slammed into Fircomp2.
Gtr St bus - Stonefire again. TheMasker sidechained from Lead V to give vocal precedence over gtr to avoid clash.
Gtr mono bus - AW Spiral2 saturation.
Keys bus - light touch of Fircomp2.
BV bus - Fircomp2 lightly
Lead V bus - Fircomp2. Fairly heavy compression.
Effects:
V Delay bus - LSP Slapback Delay. 60ms L, 55ms right. Gives a bit more spread and depth.
Drum Verb bus - Snr and Toms. AW kPlate140, ZL EQ.
Aether Reverb bus - sends from keys, gtr, vox. Send level of gtr ramps up in outro section.
Master bus - Airwindows Mastering (nice!), Lens for some light multiband compression, x42 Digital Peak Limiter barely active.

Also put AW Meter and x42 Stereo Phase Scope on Monitor bus. Obviously won't affect the master output.

I used a lot of Airwindows here, using Airwindows Consolidated mostly. Stonefire is a great alternative to normal EQ in places as is the Mastering plugin.
Overall not a hard mix. Some spill in places particularly drums into gtr mics in the earlier parts. I kept the delay and reverbs fairly subtle, more feels than hears. A little fader automation on gtr and piano. Some other levels varied a bit but that just added to the flow and dynamics so I left them. Faded out the master to remove the last 30 seconds as it got a bit boring.
Fun times!

User avatar
erlkönig
Established Member
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue May 31, 2022 8:58 am
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: Mixing Corner | run #2 | Fredy V - Not Alone

Post by erlkönig »

...unfortunately i didn't find any time to take part for different reasons..
if it's ok, we could extend to end of February. Are there any other people interested in this thread or taking part, except @sunrat and me?

Currently working with
https://www.honeysuckers.rocks/?lang=en
https://www.facebook.com/SatanicVoices2019/
Fiddling with sequencers does not evolve into music necessarily and Mac users have smelly feet and guzzle little children.

User avatar
sunrat
Established Member
Posts: 1150
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 194 times
Been thanked: 320 times

Re: Mixing Corner | run #2 | Fredy V - Not Alone

Post by sunrat »

erlkönig wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 10:04 am

if it's ok, we could extend to end of February.

OK by me. I'm keen to hear some other takes on this.

Post Reply