PiPedal/TooB Amp Project request for open-license ML and Neural Amp models

All your LV2 and LADSPA goodness and more.

Moderators: MattKingUSA, khz

Post Reply
rerdavies
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:52 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

PiPedal/TooB Amp Project request for open-license ML and Neural Amp models

Post by rerdavies »

I am seeking to contact creators of amp models for GuitarML Proteus and Neural Amp Modeler in order to arrange permission to include models as factory-preinstalled models for plugins in the PiPedal and TooB Amp projects.

I am the author of

  • the PiPedal Project -- an open-source guitar effects pedal for Raspberry Pim
  • the TooB Amp Project - a open-source set of LV2 plugins with native interfaces for any linux platform that are included in PiPedal as a set of plugins to get users started.

The PiPedal and ToobAmp projects include two Machine-Learning-based lv2 plugins:

  • TooB Neural Amp Modeller: An LV2 plugin wrapper of Steven Atkins' NeuralAmpModelerCore library.

  • TooB ML: An LV2 plugin wrapper of Jatin Chowdry's RTNeural library.

TooB Neural Amp Modeler loads neural net amp models downloaded from ToneHunt.org, and TooB ML models are compatible with models for the GuitarML Proteus project, which also uses Jatin Chowdry's library.

Users can easily install models downloaded from either of these libraries. But, what I would like to do is include a couple of factory-installed models for each of these plugin in order to give an immediate sense of what these two very impressive ML libraries are capable of.

Although both of these projects use community-built and -uploaded guitar amp models, neither site specifies licensing terms or provides contact information for authors of the models that have been uploaded. I am therefore not able to include any of these downloadable models as factory-installed models, until I can verify that they are appropriately licensed.

The PiPedal project is scurpulously and careful provided under an MIT license, and only uses component that are similarly open-licensed -- MIT, BSD, or similar licenses. Absolutely no GPL or CC-BY-SA-NC licensed content or dependencies.[*]

To that end, I am seeking creators of models for RTNeural (GuitarML Proteus), and Neural Amp Modeler (ToneHunt.org) who can give me permission to use their models under a permissive non-viral license in the PiPedal project.

To include the models in the PiPedal project, I need models that are licensed under any license that's equivalently restrictive to CC-BY-SA, or MIT licenses. i.e. licenses that provide permission to copy with at most an explicit request for appropriate copyright/credit notifications.

The models will actually be included within the TooBAmp project, which is then in turn included in the PiPedal project.

Acknowledgements and copyright notices will be explicitly given for models that are included in pugin information dialogs, and debian package copyright notices and within the PiPedal About page legal notices section.

Regards,

Robin Davies
email: rerdavies of gmail.com


[*] Why not GPL licenses? I believe that free software should not infect derived projects with viral GPL licensing terms in perpetuity. Free software should be free like beer. Both the RTNeural project and Neural Amp Modeler project are generously licensed under MIT licenses. It seems monstrous to me that authors of effects plugins should use those very substantial libraries in plugins whose code for the very slim wrappers required infects all that follow with GPL licensing terms.

a.d.
Established Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:48 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: PiPedal/TooB Amp Project request for open-license ML and Neural Amp models

Post by a.d. »

I was with you but I'm a bit taken aback by your aversion to the GPL. Terms like "infect" and "monstrous" are a bit much.

novalix
Established Member
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:12 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Re: PiPedal/TooB Amp Project request for open-license ML and Neural Amp models

Post by novalix »

Hi,

there are broken links in your post.

IANAL, but i am 99.9% sure that your understanding of copyleft licensing is inaccurate. That means, if you would ship a GPL licensed model that would not "infect" the licensing of your software. If that were the case no BSD distribution would have ever been able to ship GPL software.

The problem you are facing is that those models you want to ship are not explicitly licensed at all. If they were licensed "GPL or CC-BY-SA-NC" you would not have a legal problem to ship them and it would not have consequences for the licensing of your software.

Baggypants
Established Member
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:28 pm
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: PiPedal/TooB Amp Project request for open-license ML and Neural Amp models

Post by Baggypants »

"Free software should be free like beer"

Ironically, an MIT licenced project can be taken by another party and immediate closed sourced without the original authors consent and turned into a paid proprietary product. A GPL licensed one cannot.

edit: I suppose once you drink a free beer then no-one else can drink it.

Last edited by Baggypants on Wed Sep 04, 2024 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
runiq
Established Member
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:55 am
Has thanked: 95 times
Been thanked: 26 times
Contact:

Re: PiPedal/TooB Amp Project request for open-license ML and Neural Amp models

Post by runiq »

rerdavies wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:16 am

Free software should be free like beer.

I like that sentiment, but there's a difference between freeware (=software that costs nothing) and free software (=software that respects your freedom to tinker with it). The point of licensing a thing as GPL is to make sure that all derivatives of it can be tinkered with, which often helps the original project as well.

Imagine I took TooB Amp, augmented it somehow, and sold it. With the current MIT license, I am under no obligation to make the new code available to the original TooB Amp project. If TooB Amp were licensed under the GPL, I would have to license my version of TooB amp as well, so you could incorporate any improvements into your own code. That's the entire point of the GPL, and that's what arguably improves the overall health of the ecosystem. Yes, it is viral; yes, it does affect derived code, but in a way that allows anyone to play around with it and make it fit for their own purpose. Whether that results in more innovation (because most everyone can have a crack at improving the project) or less innovation (because commercial entities generally shy away from GPL-licensed code and commercial entities are responsible for most of the innovation) is not easy to answer, IMHO.

Baggypants wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 1:37 pm

Ironically, an MIT licenced project can be taken by another party and immediate closed sourced without the original authors consent and turned into a paid proprietary product. A GPL licensed one cannot.

While you're correct, that doesn't have anything to do with freeware. Software can be both free (of charge) and proprietary, or free (software) and paid. Here are examples of each combination of paid/no cost and proprietary/GPL:

  • Paid & proprietary: Bitwig Studio

  • Paid & GPL: Ardour in binary form

  • No cost & proprietary: Obsidian

  • No cost & GPL: Linux

Last edited by runiq on Thu Sep 05, 2024 6:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
Baggypants
Established Member
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:28 pm
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: PiPedal/TooB Amp Project request for open-license ML and Neural Amp models

Post by Baggypants »

The term you should be using is "Public Domain"

User avatar
funkmuscle
Established Member
Posts: 2959
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: PiPedal/TooB Amp Project request for open-license ML and Neural Amp models

Post by funkmuscle »

Maybe we should look into this a little bit further because when I read this I thought it was great but then the whole topic ends up around the license and it just seems that a lot of people were offended by what the request was. Again I'm not trying to point fingers but I just read the replies and I was feeling like if I was being slapped so imagine the guy who requested this. I know you guys are passionate and I can't recall exactly what was said about stuff being open source and then somebody taking it and charging for it Well that happens with air windows stuff all the time. I think if somebody wants to go commercial with it go for it but at least pay the person or give them a cut of every sale. The person being the one who created the software. Maybe the license should be changed to that that if anyone decides to go commercial with it the devs should get a cut in every unit that sold or plug in.

So hopefully this idea is not shut down because I think it would be great because I'm sick and tired of Linux taking a backseat to the other platforms. I wish this mind of mine understood how to program and everything because a lot of times I see stuff that could be done but I don't have a clue on how to do it and I don't have the time to run a family and a band and then on top of that do some developmental projects. So hopefully buddy is not gone and he's just busy and he comes back and explains himself because this could be good so let's give the guy a chance and maybe come up with some solutions.

I'm not saying this to have anyone snap back at me I'm just trying to be helpful here. Yes he could have used wordings that we didn't like but when we say stuff like wow that threw me off or this happened or that happened it feels like or at least to me reading it it feels like some guys were taking it personally when he spoke about the license. Maybe let's have a discussion on it with the guy the developer that is. I could be completely wrong because I do not understand how the license works but I say leave no stone unturned. Let's see what he's got to offer if he actually does come back because he may have just said screw this after all of our replies.

Again do not shoot me for my two cents I'm just trying to help by helping our platform create its own identity by having its own stuff. And if buddy wants to sell it whoever helps him should get a cut of everything that's sold.

User avatar
Largos
Established Member
Posts: 717
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:21 pm
Has thanked: 83 times
Been thanked: 227 times

Re: PiPedal/TooB Amp Project request for open-license ML and Neural Amp models

Post by Largos »

Links for those too lazy to use a search engine

https://rerdavies.github.io/pipedal/

https://github.com/rerdavies/ToobAmp

Post Reply