voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

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funkmuscle
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voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by funkmuscle »

Hey y'all, just wanted to know if we have any native plugins that can do EXACTLY WHAT'S BEING DONE IN THIS VIDEO?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suC1ymh43pE

Yes I know I know, the way to do it is to double track but sometimes we need that exactly track but in stereo. Not singing twice or recording the guitar twice then pan!
I've tried it with Wine and it works amazingly BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT WHAT'S WORKING TODAY MAY NOT TOMORROW when it comes to Wine.

Yes, I know, do not upgrade Wine but this only works in Reaper.
Hopefully I've answered the most common and great questions/suggestions when it comes to what I should try. :D

This example with an acoustic guitar was insanely correct on what my needs are when I tested the instructions in the video.

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by funkmuscle »

Crap!! By now I should have received a reply so I guess we have nothing. :(
$70 and in Canadian $, mostly likely 8M to buy! :D

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by novalix »

Well, all he does with that plugin is flipping the polarity on one channel of the duplicated track, right?
In Ardour/Mixbus you could do the same thing in the mixerstrip. If you want to use a plugin for that (with the bonus of delaying the channel in one go) you could use @x42 's stereo balance control.

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by funkmuscle »

novalix wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 10:40 pm

Well, all he does with that plugin is flipping the polarity on one channel of the duplicated track, right?
In Ardour/Mixbus you could do the same thing in the mixerstrip. If you want to use a plugin for that (with the bonus of delaying the channel in one go) you could use @x42 's stereo balance control.

Nope! Tried all that.. Something with the 180 and shutting that side of the plugin off. If you notice, 2 buttons are numbered L180 R 180.

I think that has something to do with it because your suggestion which I tried, as soon as I collapse to mono, you hear it didn't work.

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by novalix »

Can it be you missed the crucial part of delaying the mirroring track?

I've just tried the following in ardour:

My vocal track is mono which is reasonable, isn't it. I create a send to an StereoAuxFX bus and tune it to exactly match the loudness of the original track (unity gain) and invert the polarity. Listening to the soloed vocal track + the aux bus shows me it nulls out completely. Now i put a delay plugin on the aux bus (lsp delay compensator stereo) and dial in some ms delay. As soon delay kicks in i hear some not very phase correct vocal tone. I reverse the polarity of one channel in the mixer strip of the aux bus and adjust the volume to a reasonable amount.
Voilà, the same effect as shown in the video. It does not collapse when i check it in mono.

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by sunrat »

novalix wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:54 am

Can it be you missed the crucial part of delaying the mirroring track?

I've just tried the following in ardour:

My vocal track is mono which is reasonable, isn't it. I create a send to an StereoAuxFX bus and tune it to exactly match the loudness of the original track (unity gain) and invert the polarity. Listening to the soloed vocal track + the aux bus shows me it nulls out completely. Now i put a delay plugin on the aux bus (lsp delay compensator stereo) and dial in some ms delay. As soon delay kicks in i hear some not very phase correct vocal tone. I reverse the polarity of one channel in the mixer strip of the aux bus and adjust the volume to a reasonable amount.
Voilà, the same effect as shown in the video. It does not collapse when i check it in mono.

My thoughts exactly. Watching the video, the only thing the PHA-979 is doing is reversing the phase of one channel. Along with the 10ms shift, equivalent to a delay, it seems that is all the video shows to be doing.

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by sadko4u »

The main idea is just to generate side part of the signal by not affecting the middle part of the signal.
This requires the additional audio signal having the right channel completely out-of-phase to the left channel so when mixing left and right to mono you get the zero output.
You can do the same thing with LSP Slap-back delay if you need simple solution or with LSP Slap-back delay if you want to add more than one delay.

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by funkmuscle »

As I've mentioned at the start of the thread, I've tried it all and nothing comes up to this. Everything that spin mentioned after I'd but it doesn't give me exactly what I'm looking for. I've been looking for this for a long time and in fact when I saw the video I rolled my eyes saying okay here goes another attempt of turning mono into stereo and then they will tell you that okay you'll hear a little bit of phasing but not as much but then this guy demonstrated this and there was no phase and it actually sounded natural. All the other methods never sound natural to me except when you double track the guitars. And even when you double track the guitars and if you are as anal as I am and you want to hear the strings ring out when you play power chords, because of the human element you cannot duplicate yourself exactly sometimes that gets mushed in there. With this I was able to hear the strings actually all vibrating properly when I played power chords.

I may just end up purchasing this thing down the road and just use my only windows running machine here which I only use to update firmware for certain hardware I have but it's fasting enough and powerfully enough that I can actually just record my guitar through there and then do the whole thing that that guy did there and then transfer it over to the Linux box.

But on a positive note, thank you guys for all the ideas there because a lot of those things that you guys pointed out I can use elsewhere. One thing for the vocal tracks as mentioned, audio assault had a plug-in I think I grabbed for $5 called double take and that alone doubles the vocals but I tried it on guitars and it didn't do it. Well I shouldn't say didn't do it it did double it but it actually was very noticeable that this doubling is caused by some form of plug-in.

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by glowrak guy »

For a decade +, I run a mono to stereo cable from my guitars to an m-audio PCI soundcard stereo inputs, into reaper stereo tracks. I really like the results. I also appreciate the knowledgeable comments!

BlueCat have a team of utilities Connector, FaderHub, and Freeceiver, to enable streaming among friends or computers on a network, designed to seemlessly transmit audio between such disparate computers. Might be a nice way to integrate your windows machine. Their software works well in wine, and demo's are available, that fade out-in, rather than the annoying IK Hiss-fest :wink: Might be worth a test?

FaderHub Acoustic guitar examples are at 6:35 in this vid: https://youtu.be/-EiMKrtJm1A

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... Connector/

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... reeceiver/

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_FaderHub/

Also, their Axiom 2 ampsim suite works well in my linux setups, and can host 3rd party 64 bit vsts

Leon Todd demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAvs1AOKIXM

Cheers

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by funkmuscle »

The blue cat's sweet that's something I do have so it does run on my Linux box flawlessly and I do have it on the windows laptop. I'll check up my boy there Leon. I'm surprised I missed this because I've been following him for a long time. Thanks again for all the suggestions guys. Keep them coming if you got good stuff because they are not falling on deaf ears at all. Every single thing that was said here is very helpful if not for me others that may be looking for answers to a similar situation.

That's why I love this forum. You get help Even though it doesn't solve your issue at least people are willing to help. Everybody should give themselves a pat on the back because we are all looking out for each other. This is good stuff man!

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by novalix »

Maybe i wasn't clear enough.
The recipe i posted does exactly the same thing (100%) as what is shown in the video.
There are three parameters one has to take into account for a happy outcome:

  1. the source material
  2. the delay time one applies to the mirror
  3. the level one uses to mix in the effect

The tool one uses to invert the polarity of one of the channels of the mirroring track/bus is absolutely arbitrary.

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by funkmuscle »

I will definitely continue to check all of this out when I have some time later on either today or tomorrow. Thanks again man!

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by funkmuscle »

Hey y'all, I've done it.
DId everything in the video like recording the one input like a stereo track.
Flipped the phase then dup the track
Flipped phase back on original track.
Nudged ahead dup track by 10 msecs or I could of used the LSP slapback delay.

THIS IS DONE IN ARDOUR/MIXBUS. Dunno how to do the next step in Reaper..

On the dup track, flipped the phase on one channel...
Brought up volume to task and bingo...
It freaking works... I think someone kinda mentioned doing something like that.

Thank you all again!!

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by bluebell »

funkmuscle wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 4:06 pm

It freaking works... I think someone kinda mentioned doing something like that.

Maybe that was me. I use it in my master bus, but not only for widening the stereo image but to avoid that "sucking on my ear"-feeling with tracks that are panned left or right. Sometimes I use 20 ms delay, sometimes 10 ms.

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Re: voxengo PHA-979 native alternative

Post by juki »

Not a plugin but might be a useful solution.

A new method to take a mono guitar DI track and make it stereo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lseasKn ... 5x&index=4

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