Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

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Tippe
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Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by Tippe »

Hi.

Usually I'm using Qtractor and Qjackctl/jackd for doing music.
Currently I'm testing a small system with pipewire installed.

When Qjackctl/jackd is running, Qtractor complains about ALSA midi not found.
By using pw-jack to start Qtractor, the Qtractor complains about JACK server AND ALSA midi not found.

So, it is not possible to use Qtractor with pipewire?
Is there anything similar to qjackctl for pipewire, to choose soundcard, make connections etc.pp.
Am I lost on the use of newer GNU/Linux operating systems?

Do I have to switch to Windows and waste my poor amount of money? :lol:

Thanks

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by Largos »

What distribution are are you using? (Please always mention this when asking for help) Qtractor should work fine with pipewire. You don't need qjackctl for pipewire. If you want a program for routing, qpwgraph is the successor to the graph in qjackctl.

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by Tippe »

It's debian based.
It's called KLV which stands for Kennel Linux Versions.
The command: pw-jack clementine is working properly.

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by tseaver »

@Tippe

It's debian based.
It's called KLV which stands for Kennel Linux Versions.
The command: pw-jack clementine is working properly.

What version of pipewire is installed? E.g.,

Code: Select all

$ dpkg-query --show pipewire

Debian stable ("bookworm") ended up shipping (because Gnome decided to depend on it) a pre-1.0 version of Pipewire (0.38.??) which is inadequate for the "pro-audio" usecases: I had to update the machine I was using to test pipewire to Debian testing ("trixie") to get a suitable version of pipewire.

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by novalix »

At least on debian proper it is not necessary to upgrade the whole system to testing or unstable. A relatively recent version of pipewire is installable through the backports repo.

Code: Select all

apt-cache policy pipewire
pipewire:
  Installed: 1.0.3-1~bpo12+1
  Candidate: 1.0.3-1~bpo12+1
  Version table:
     1.0.4-3 80
         80 http://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
 *** 1.0.3-1~bpo12+1 100
        100 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-backports/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     0.3.65-3+deb12u1 500
        500 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm/main amd64 Packages
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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by Impostor »

Tippe wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 12:00 am

Do I have to switch to Windows and waste my poor amount of money? :lol:

Don't worry about money when it's your soul that's at stake!

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by tseaver »

@novalix

At least on debian proper it is not necessary to upgrade the whole system to testing or unstable. A relatively recent version of pipewire is installable through the backports repo.

Hmm, I looked for it in backports and failed to find it. Likely PEBKAC. Thanks for the steer!

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

novalix wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 12:31 pm

At least on debian proper it is not necessary to upgrade the whole system to testing or unstable.[...]

What do you mean by Debian "Proper"? The "Stable" release (wich is ver. 12 codename 'Bookworm' at the moment)?

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by novalix »

Linuxmusician01 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 10:10 am

What do you mean by Debian "Proper"? The "Stable" release (wich is ver. 12 codename 'Bookworm' at the moment)?

I meant debian as a distribution itself (and of course stable in this context). However the OP is running something "debian based". Some of those derivatives might be based on stable and can be sensibly extended with the bpo repo, others might not, idk.

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by GMaq »

Hi,

Relating to the OP who I've talked with in other discussions about Audio Distros, I'm seeing the same thing in a quick test..

AV Linux MX Edition comes with PipeWire 1.0.0 (upgradable to 1.0.3 in the MX Test Repo). Pipewire-jack is linked and set to run out of the box and the included DAW's (Ardour, Reaper and Harrison Mixbus) all seamlessly connect to Pipewire JACK.

If Qtractor is optionally installed it pulls in jackd (why is that a hard dependency, perhaps it should be a 'suggested' dependency?) this is very annoying if you have created and set up the system linker to seamlessly use PipeWire's JACK and then get another Audio server dragged in that shouldn't be required..

If Qtractor is launched as things are it's transport is non-functional and it complains in it's log because apparently it wants jackd running even on a system where PipeWire JACK is linked and already running.

How are other users of PipeWire and Qtractor getting around this? Surely it's not this difficult to simply install and use Qtractor on a PipeWire system without pulling in an unwanted and unneeded Audio server?

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by tseaver »

@GMaq

If Qtractor is optionally installed it pulls in jackd (why is that a hard dependency, perhaps it should be a 'suggested' dependency?) this is very annoying if you have created and set up the system linker to seamlessly use PipeWire's JACK and then get another Audio server dragged in that shouldn't be required.

Hmm, looking at the Debian stable packaging info for the qtractor package, it seems as though the source package only build-requires one of libjack-dev or libjack2-dev: assuming Pipewire provides API equivalent headers (/usr/include/jack/jack.h) and library (/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libjack.so), it should build fine, even if one doesn't have one of those packages installed.

The stable binary package, however: has a hard requirement on the jackd package.

Fixing the binary (or build-requires) dependencies would require a change to the Debian control file, as well as testing to find the PW equivalent packages to add as options.

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

Who determines what Qtractor depends on? It's developer (@rncbc) or Debian? AFAIK Qrtactor should work fine with PipeWire. Maybe Debian Stable ver. 12 'Bookworm' uses an old version of Qtractor. Even my version is newer and I use Ubuntu 20. :?:

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by Axel-Erfurt »

tseaver wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 2:03 am

The stable binary package, however: has a hard requirement on the jackd package.

This package is 0.9.31

You can try the Appimage Version 0.9.39 from https://sourceforge.net/projects/qtract ... or/0.9.39/

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by novalix »

Linuxmusician01 wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:55 am

Who determines what Qtractor depends on? It's developer (@rncbc) or Debian?

Both obviously. A distribution maintainer has to decide how to organize the build and the runtime dependencies the given source code (upstream) defines. He/she does this to integrate this given software in the package management of the distribution.
In this process mistakes can happen -> bug report @debian.

On the packaging side this could be resolved by letting the binary package depend on either jackd or pipewire-jack.

However, @GMaq's description of qtractor's runtime behaviour suggests that the software itself is relying on a running jackd proper -> bug report @rncbc.

That said, this specific constellation is not fully resolvable. The official pipewire-jack version in debian stable is not an adequate replacement for jackd. On the other hand, just pulling in jackd does no harm other than requiring some kb of the filesystem. It is not automatically starting anyway.


On a sidenote: If your version of qtractor in this ancient ubuntu is really newer than the one in debian stable, you will definitly have dragged it in through an additional source.

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Re: Pipewire questions, first time in use ever

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

novalix wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 10:12 am
Linuxmusician01 wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:55 am

Who determines what Qtractor depends on? It's developer (@rncbc) or Debian?

Both obviously. A distribution maintainer has to decide how to organize the build and the runtime dependencies the given source code (upstream) defines. He/she does this to integrate this given software in the package management of the distribution.
In this process mistakes can happen -> bug report @debian.

On the packaging side this could be resolved by letting the binary package depend on either jackd or pipewire-jack.

Thank you for clearing that up.

novalix wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 10:12 am

However, @GMaq's description of qtractor's runtime behaviour suggests that the software itself is relying on a running jackd proper -> bug report @rncbc.

That said, this specific constellation is not fully resolvable. The official pipewire-jack version in debian stable is not an adequate replacement for jackd. On the other hand, just pulling in jackd does no harm other than requiring some kb of the filesystem. It is not automatically starting anyway.

Hmmmm. Is PipeWire ready to be used instead of Jack or isn't it yet? It was supposed to clean up the mess wasn't it? Maybe Debian Stable uses a PW version that's too old? I can't imagine Qtractor's developer still maintaining a hard dependency on Jack if PW is supposed to replace it (if I'm not mistaken then he has a good hard for PW). BTW AFAIK Qtractor tries to start Jack if it's not already started. But that may or may not happen if you've got pipewire-jack running.

novalix wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 10:12 am

On a sidenote: If your version of qtractor in this ancient ubuntu is really newer than the one in debian stable, you will definitly have dragged it in through an additional source.

You're right. I forgot that I installed Qtr. from RNBC's repo. :wink:

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