help needed, is my music repetative ?

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Gps
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help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by Gps »

As some of you might remember, I entered bol. (best of LMMS)

I did not even make it through the preliminarily round. Although that was disappointing that is not what what is bothering me.

When I asked for feedback my track was called repetitive, and that is bothering me. (melody and mixing was called not too bad)

I love some older house tracks like this:

MARSHALL JEFFERSON - MOVE YOUR BODY [The House Music Anthem]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAR8cq5 ... =YazaHouse

Push - Universal Nation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnBeTPp ... KevinByrne

You will not get any argument from me, when you call house repetitive.

Now my track:
Duality
https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/duality

Is my track more repetitive then those house tracks? :?

Am I missing something or it this just a taste thingy ?

Do I need to learn to mess more with filters and other synth knobs or is it something else, in my song structure?
(mabye I need more fading in and out of certain parts ?)

I am seriously confused.

One more house example:
Kellee - My Love
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HJrJJS ... aModaMusic

Whats the difference to those house tracks and mine?
To me they sound just as repetitive as my track. :?

I am struggling to understand if I should ignore his feedback or not.

I also love Chase by Giorgo Moroder, but again, don't tell me that is not repetitive. :?
For those that think that they dont know chase:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxffDaq ... ectedMusic
From a good movie, midnight express.

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by Impostor »

Gps wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 5:52 pm

Is my track more repetitive then those house tracks? :?

Hmmm. The synth melody does go on relentlessly in the high octaves. Maybe let a bass sound take over the melody role intermittently. Give our brains some respite from the high frequencies.

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by Gps »

Thank you. I am starting to see the light. :)

My melody goes on basically from start to finish, that is not how those house tracks work.

Its not a true copy and paste though, but clearly the difference is to minute to be noticed enough. :)

So I need more fade in and out of elements, and maybe use a different synth / preset for some parts of the melody.

Making music can be fun, but also very frustrating for me.
That feeling I wrote a hit, BUT something is missing. Like falling in a long distance race 5 meters or yards before the finish line.

It could be from a house perspective, I just need vocals, to hide its repetitiveness.
Sadly all the woman I asked, were not interested.

More then one person already called my melody catchy, so its not the melody itself that is the issue.

It might be also from a house perspective I am making it too hard for myself.
There are house tracks, especially the acid branch were the main change in the melody part is just filters changing.
I am in general not a fan of acid house though, that is often even for my taste way too repetitive.
Although I my self smoke joints (not all day), I often wondered about some house styles, if there is anybody liking that music when sober....

Things like hard style come to mind, which in my mind does not qualify as music anymore.

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by Death »

I get told the same thing about my music all the time. I can't really disagree with people because whenever I'm criticised - that's the main reason they give. Sometimes repetitiveness is not a bad thing though and also remember that when people aren't into a style of music they'll just say that it all sounds the same to them.

I'm not really into House myself but I used a technique on your song that I also use on my own; That is, keep skipping forward by about 20 seconds at a time and listen for a few seconds before the next skip - do you notice any significant change in the sound? If not then it's repetitive. It sounds a bit brutal but I've found it useful with my own music.

To be more specific - that lead synth melody seems to be playing throughout the entire song so I think it may be good if it dropped out in a couple of sections and then maybe a completely different synth that is more subtle could come in and be used only for those two sections. Possibly also change the drums and something else in those sections because that way, when the previous sounds come back in they will have a bigger effect - If the same thing keeps going for too long it loses its effect on the listener.

It's easy to say stuff like this but I know how hard it is to actually put it into practice. I've been making music for a long time and I still get the old 'too repetitive' feedback so maybe I shouldn't even be offering advice eh..

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by Gps »

Because I know my track so well, I already know the answer without trying the 20 seconds trick.
So the change is too minimal for it to be effective. :)

Then there are people who just don't like what I call, boom clap music. (all disco, house and edm)

It often feels the longer I make music the harder it gets. :(

This topic is helping me big time though.

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by Gps »

I had a look and listen at my track in LMMS.

I noticed the main sound is made with 3 synths.

If I mute one specific, it already sounds quite different, even though its still the same melody. :)

I might also have to use the high pass filter even more / stronger.

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by Largos »

I agree with the others, that synth line goes round too much and is unrelenting because it has no variation in the phrasing. It's the same five note rhythm for almost the entire time across various.

To compare it with things that Kellee song does to add variation. The vocals are not all the way through, they are alternated with instrumentation. If you notice a lot of the time when she is singing the chorus line, she sings the same line repeatedly but changes the melody slightly for odd and even That's a very common device for variation. As is doing the same phrase three times, then a different one for the fourth. The dynamics are brought down with instruments cut out and brought back in again.

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by Gps »

Largos wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 11:27 pm

I agree with the others, that synth line goes round too much and is unrelenting because it has no variation in the phrasing. It's the same five note rhythm for almost the entire time across various.

To compare it with things that Kellee song does to add variation. The vocals are not all the way through, they are alternated with instrumentation. If you notice a lot of the time when she is singing the chorus line, she sings the same line repeatedly but changes the melody slightly for odd and even That's a very common device for variation. As is doing the same phrase three times, then a different one for the fourth. The dynamics are brought down with instruments cut out and brought back in again.

Thank you, so that the "variation" I was not noticing with Kellee. :D

Weird vid but I like the scene in that tunnel, I live close to that that tunnel. (Amsterdam)
Which confuse me, when I google this track, but it was probably a one day hit wonder.
The artist seems to be from the states.

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by tavasti »

Gps wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 5:52 pm

MARSHALL JEFFERSON - MOVE YOUR BODY [The House Music Anthem]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAR8cq5 ... =YazaHouse

Here hihat is such that head hurts, could listen few seconds from here and there. But big thing on repetitive point, it has vocals. Vocals make even same way repeating thing ok. (Because hihats, I can't really say is this repetitive at all)

Gps wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 5:52 pm

Push - Universal Nation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnBeTPp ... KevinByrne

Yeah, repetitive as hell. Belongs to this genre.

Gps wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 5:52 pm

Now my track:
Duality
https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/duality

Is my track more repetitive then those house tracks? :?

Am I missing something or it this just a taste thingy ?

I think in real repetitiveness it is on same range as Push, or possibly even less. However what might make it feeling is the type of arpeggio-type melody which is going on all the time, which is at least for me thing that starts to feel like too much repetition (anyway this is not my genre, so don't take my comments too seriously). I think if the sound would be bit softer/lower pitch and sound should slightly change all the time. Automation on attack time, filtering, if it is done with arpeggiator, gate len, etc.

In such tracks, there should be all the time be something happening. Slowly movin automation changes, and possibly some more elements coming in or going out.

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by Gps »

Thank you, and those hi hats? I do not know what to think of it.

Most house from this time, has a very loud high hat. A tad too much for my personal taste, I would not have mixed the track like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxQQ04k ... =dutchvibe

You can skip to 0:40 seconds to get my point. There is clearly even reverb used.
Hi hat + clap and reverb ?

I am starting to see the light though. My melody continues for almost the entire track.
There are no parts in those house how ever were they repeat the same thing for 4 minutes, like I am doing.
Except maybe for the bassline, but they often fade that in and out too.

Fun fact, I was resisting to use filter changes, because that did not count as making music in my book.
Until I realized Jean Michel Jarre and Vangelis use this too, although they don't use it to hide repetitiveness.

Maybe I need top find an auto tune vocoder plugin, and just put my own voice over it.
How hard can it be to shout something? I once tried this without a vocoder, were I only shouted base. It sounded horrible. :lol:

The arpeggio in my track is not a synth arpeggio though, all notes put in by hand.
Still I should be able to mess with filters and such. Also see if I can make variations. :)
That's not the house way, but who cares about that. Its probably an advantage I did not use s synth arpeggio for the melody.
(the bass line is a synth arpeggio)

How did house start ?
A dj would in a club mix disco tracks while putting a drum-machine under it.
This happened shorty after disco was declared dead.

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by barbouze »

Maybe learn a trick or two from Jeff Mills? He's a master in minimalist techno, which isn't that far from house music.

In The Bells from 0:56 to 02:36 you can hear the theme and even if it is only three notes, there is really a lot going on, with the theme itself of the other tracks/instruments :wink:

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by barbouze »

Gps wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:13 pm

Fun fact, I was resisting to use filter changes, because that did not count as making music in my book.

Daft Punk and the entire French Touch artists disagree :P

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by Gps »

Daft punk, I do like some of their tracks.

But not, probably their greatest hit, one more time.

This one though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NV6Rdv ... ftPunkVEVO

Daft Punk with Nile Rodgers who is playing the guitar part. (and were back to disco and chic)
I like probably everything Nile Rodgers wrote.

I am gonna listen to Jeff Mills, although techno is not really my cup of tea.
I have heard techno being called the angry cousin of house. :lol:

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by Gps »

I have been watching a few house and early dance club vids.

Its clearly that house started from mixes in clubs. A lot of gay people involved, which does not bother me but did surprise me.
There was also a lot of drugs involved.

The important part for me though, this music comes from mixes. A lot of black music, but later on also rock music was mixed in, and things like kraftwerk.

In one documentary a guy builds an elecronic device, so they could control the low and high sounds separately.

A fun fact some of the early house producers admitting they did not know what they were doing.
They did not have any professional music or music theory background.

Their only goal was to make people dance.

Although house started in America, techno and such come from the UK.

What I can learn from this mostly, were the variation comes from. Although I am fully willing to admit variation is a bit of an overstatement. :lol:

But fading stuff in and out is one thing those DJ 's did when they mixed in front of a crowd, there was not much else they could do.
They would also loop the best parts of records. This does explain to me why I like certain mixed, but am rather disappointed when hearing some of the original tracks.

So for my track, I need more fading in and out of stuff, and see if I can make more variations on the same theme. :)

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Re: help needed, is my music repetative ?

Post by tavasti »

Gps wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 1:16 pm

So for my track, I need more fading in and out of stuff, and see if I can make more variations on the same theme. :)

Same theme played with some different sound is obvious what you could do.

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