Should volume knob be separate from power switch?

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PongPoku
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Should volume knob be separate from power switch?

Post by PongPoku »

For some amplifiers, volume knob serves as the power switch.

If the volume knob is the power switch, then the amplifier cannot remember its own volume level after being turned off and on.

What do you think of volume knob power switches?

I personally prefer a power switch separate from a volume knob.

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Re: Should volume knob be separate from power switch?

Post by Nachei »

Joining volume + power into one button seems to me a measure at the service of the manufacturer, not of the user. A way of cheapening cost, akin to having "integrated" graphic cards (that they very cunningly market avoiding the word "shared"): the graphic card mooches RAM off the CPU's, you don't mind do you, the justification is that this way you'll get a cheaper product, in exchange for a "minor nuisance" (your screen will vomit random pixels here and there, the amp will forget its volume settings...)

Any company can choose to compete based on quality or based on price, and unfortunately the bulk of them take the easy road and compete on price. The result is that we get crappier and crappier products... "at excellent prices!"

The only possible scenario in which joining those two buttons would make usability sense is if space was a concern (you're trying to create a very portable amp, etc)...

I really don't like that they they do that, I think as a way of cheapening costs it's a cop-out, there are many ways of streamlining a process to reduce cost without passing the consequences to the user. You can tell those are not customer-oriented companies, the client is like an afterthought, an item lost inside a list of other 50 things.

Plus, this two-in-one button concept goes against the very fundamental Linux principle of "do only one thing and do it well".

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Re: Should volume knob be separate from power switch?

Post by PongPoku »

Nachei wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 9:19 am

Joining volume + power into one button seems to me a measure at the service of the manufacturer, not of the user. A way of cheapening cost,

The specific product I had in mind was Fosi V3. Although the manufacturer addressed almost all problems of AIYIMA A07 amplifier, I have to turn V3's volume knob to turn it on and off.

Here is Fosi V3's kickstarter funding campaign that shows how the amp works.

It's not a button. It is a rotating switch.

I think saving cost was not the primary motivation behind Fosi V3 although they tried to save costs where they could.

It seemed to me that it was a design choice rather than a cost-saving measure. It aims to be a reliable minimalist amplifier. I think they thought not having a power switch was minimalist. It certainly looks more minimal and cleaner without a power switch. I think the product designers just didn't think about keeping amp volume at a specific place.

Nachei wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 9:19 am

akin to having "integrated" graphic cards (that they very cunningly market avoiding the word "shared"): the graphic card mooches RAM off the CPU's, you don't mind do you, the justification is that this way you'll get a cheaper product, in exchange for a "minor nuisance" (your screen will vomit random pixels here and there, the amp will forget its volume settings...)

An integrated graphics card occupies less space, consumes less power, and thus requires less cooling. It is also cheaper for people who don't need to play games. The latest integrated graphics cards are suitable for playing 3D games that don't require a lot of GPU power. It is also great for servers that may sometimes need to provide GUI or command line interface on a monitor.

I would choose RX Vega integrated graphics card without a hesitation if I didn't need to worry about AMD PSP which is a CPU backdoor.

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Re: Should volume knob be separate from power switch?

Post by PongPoku »

Cheaper isn't better.

If human collective consciousness rose to a point where everybody understands that if one suffers, all suffer, then humans would become a big family and would not feel the need to invent the concept of money in the first place. Do you charge your family members for basic necessities? No. Resources should just flow where they are needed to alleviate suffering of people.

Money creates artificial scarcity and division between "have"s and "have-not"s. Higher consciousness would not divide people into haves and have-nots.

If money wasn't involved, it would be very difficult to insert backdoors into hardwares because there is no one to pay for inserting hardware backdoors.

We need higher consciousness that will produce great products for free instead of cheaper products that suck. Lower consciousness produces cheap products that suck. For now, nobody can operate without money, and higher consciousness products would look like great products with only minimal profits required for sustenance of creators.

Last edited by PongPoku on Wed May 17, 2023 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should volume knob be separate from power switch?

Post by PongPoku »

artix_linux_user wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 7:17 am

yeah, that reminds me of the Sony Jog Wheel that probably made its entry appearance in the seventies and this knob is popular since today because many pro's are comfortable with it.

Whether it's pro or not, I prefer a separate power switch. I want to keep the volume knob at a fixed position.

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Re: Should volume knob be separate from power switch?

Post by Nachei »

@PongPoku:

you have a point about the possibility that they combined both functions for design reasons. I hadn't thought of that. It's true that the amp looks very modern and minimalist... But I'd also prefer to have two controls. In matters of design, perhaps because the sense of sight is so persuasive, sometimes companies throw away the baby with the water, putting too much emphasis on form over function (an example that comes to mind is Apple removing the USB connector from their phones).

Also, sometimes, I'm convinced, both factors will concur: I'm sure sometimes they use the design as a way to get away with the cheapening measures, as a "pretty distraction". But that's probably more common in big companies than in this case.

Yet another possibility, perhaps, is that those who design the product don't really get to use it themselves enough, there's like a disconnect. This problem is common in the Linux world too, I think; an idea I had was to create some kind of contest in which programmers and designers of DAWs and other audio programs had to come up periodically with one song, done with their own software. I think if they went through the exercise, their priorities and their to-do list for upcoming versions would totally change.

I'm totally with you also in your comments about the need of a change in consciousness. I think that, from a different altitude, my comments about companies that are customer-oriented, were pointing in the same direction. Some companies that I admire have mission statements with things as candid as "bringing happiness to our customers", and they live by it, it's not wallpaper like unfortunately in many others...

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Re: Should volume knob be separate from power switch?

Post by folderol »

Interesting. Everyone has missed the elephant in the room.
If the power switch is combined with the volume control it means that every time you use the amplifier you run the control's wiper across a significant part of the track twice. Admitted modern film type tracks are more robust than the older (cheaper) carbon ones, but there are a lot of companies that will penny pinch :(

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Re: Should volume knob be separate from power switch?

Post by PongPoku »

I figured out that I could just turn the knob to half or max whenever I turn it on and adjust DAC volume, but I have to take the potentiometer lifespan into account.

Another option is to keep the amp turned on indefinitely until I need to turn it off.

Turning the knob everyday can reduce the lifespan of plastic film pot? It seems that carbon film pots are a lot more common than plastic film pots. Alps pots are carbon film pots.

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Re: Should volume knob be separate from power switch?

Post by folderol »

PongPoku wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 10:16 pm

Turning the knob everyday can reduce the lifespan of plastic film pot? It seems that carbon film pots are a lot more common than plastic film pots. Alps pots are carbon film pots.

According to the manufacturers, film ones do have a lifetime but it is dramatically greater than carbon ones. Also if you search you can get true logarithmic ones rather than the somewhat crude 2 stepped arrangement you get with carbon ones. They are about 10 times the cost though :(

Some years ago I managed to get a stereo one from RS components at a reduced price (they were end of line) for my D.I.Y. amplifier :)

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Re: Should volume knob be separate from power switch?

Post by PongPoku »

folderol wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 7:10 am

According to the manufacturers, film ones do have a lifetime but it is dramatically greater than carbon ones. Also if you search you can get true logarithmic ones rather than the somewhat crude 2 stepped arrangement you get with carbon ones. They are about 10 times the cost though :(

Some years ago I managed to get a stereo one from RS components at a reduced price (they were end of line) for my D.I.Y. amplifier :)

There are several kinds of films including carbon film.

Not all carbon film pots last only 15,000 cycles. Some carbon film pots last 200,000 or 500,000 cycles. You can use a carbon film pot that has 200,000 cycle lifespan for decades or centuries.

With 15,000 cycles, you can expect 2 ~ 20 years of daily use.

So, if you want to know the lifespan, you have to know the exact pot model.

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Re: Should volume knob be separate from power switch?

Post by GMoon »

Yeah, absolutely. Separate on/off & volume controls are much preferred.

Not exactly a new issue for electronics (cost vs function). I have '50s Kay tube amp, and the on/off switch is coupled with the tone POT. :?

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