2 interfaces, 2 jackd, couple them

[tavasti]

so, we have a topic:
2 interfaces, 2 jackd, couple them
which I think is just to burn your time and to mislead you.

Yeah, this is true, topic is misleading. Nobody since start of thread has been talking about running two separate jack daemons.

Yeah, I am often using 2 audio interfaces at the same time, a 5 year old can do that.

Oh, yesterday you said:

It is interesting to read here about using 2 interfaces.
Having said this, from my perspective, it seems, this is just more a theoretically academic discussion then a real life scenario.

And now:

Of course you can start attacking me now because I can only see bullshit here.

For me it appears you are the one behaving badly and attacking.

you can say then that pipewire is not good or that there is much configuration to be done to make it work. And it is bullshit time again.
I dont know about Ubuntu, I dont know about Red Hat Fedora...
Here, without that systemd shit, I am just installing pipewire in 2 seconds and I am good,
Of course, even a 5 years old would know that you have to start a software to make it run, so yes, you have to start pipewire, too
besides that, there was no additional configuration neccessary.
Anything else is done with pavucontrol or gnome control center and or pipecontrol.
Happy misleading. and happy gaslighting

I tested last summer in Devuan 4 (debian 11 without systemd), and got there more recent pipewire packages. Followed some instructions for it, but for some reason there was no audio output from built-in audio device. And with qjackctl + pulse, everything just worked, so it was not a hardware problem.

If getting setting up working pipewire is simple task and there multiple audio interfaces work like a charm, I would be glad to have instructions how that is done. But sure, if ranting is more your thing than helping, then it is that way. I provided instructions how I got things working in my system, but you you stepped in to say this is wrong thing to do, both target and method. Now you say target is ok, and you do it every day.

[asbak]

It's simple to set up pipewire in OS's such as *Ubuntu 22 or related flavors, probably also (no I haven't tried to myself) on Arch & Centos. Once one knows how to, of course.

*I'm not suggesting to switch to Ubuntu at all, only pointing out that it's simple to configure pipewire on Ubuntu, in case any of the loose cannons here wanted to play shoot the messenger again.

How hard it is to get it working on Debian, I have no idea. Devuan, no idea. Taking systemd out of the equation, no idea but presumably it can be done but it's not something I've dabbled with myself or see the need to. Sometimes it just isn't worth the additional effort to keep fighting changes brought in by the main distros unless I had a lot of specialist knowledge and a lot of spare time, neither of which I have.

For whatever reason pipewire seems to polarize feelz amongst some of the members here in a way reminiscent of the old PC vs Mac flamewars of the 1990's.

There's the diehard jack camp. Then there's the "it works OK for me" pipewire camp who are somewhat perplexed by the jack fundamentalists and then there is the something in-between group sitting on the fence about it all.

I'm on the fence and just go with whatever suits a particular situation best at a given time. Whether some folks like it or not, the suits & the distros are behind pipewire, jack development appears to have mostly ended (afaik?). The corporate money & the mainstream are going pipewire. The true believers will choose to stay with jack. One could argue into infinity about how things should be, how the Linux audio system should have designed, what should have been fixed, decided, backed by the main distros. It's all water under the bridge now.

For most of MY (others have different requirements) purposes, pipewire appears to already work well enough. There are cases where jack is preferable or where pipewire cannot do the job but that's not an issue either since it's trivial to flip from pipewire to jack, or jack to pipewire on one's workstation. It takes me all of about 4 seconds (if that) to switch between one or the other.

Knowing what pipewire configs to modify to make it work well is the hard part. I'm not aware of any reliable or up to date public documentation on how to achieve this for people who are not yet familiar with it. Any monkey can get sound out of pipewire but as always with most Linux distros the audio doesn't work particularly well out of the box for audio production purposes.

It's always the same classic problems with Linux that remain a part of the overall user experience. There are many Linux variants, many variations, many flavors, many versions, a general lack of documentation to begin with and the little that has been documented will inevitably be out of date or not reviewed and corrected for mistakes, omissions or obsolete practices. That leads to end user frustration for some folks which is understandable.

On Mac or PC environments things are much more standardised, much more tested, there is better vendor support, there are much larger user bases of users and knowledge pools to draw from etc.

Since audio is somewhat of a niche field on Linux the total user base is comparatively small compared to PC & Mac and there just isn't so much good information available, nor good vendor support, nor the commercial resources from the big players.

It's just one of those things. Accept it and carry on or buy a Mac.
(I'm not buying a Mac, hell no)

[tavasti]

*I'm not suggesting to switch to Ubuntu at all, only pointing out that it's simple to configure pipewire on Ubuntu, in case any of the loose cannons here wanted to play shoot the messenger again.

Yeah, I just jumped out from Ubuntu, on purpose

For most of MY (others have different requirements) purposes, pipewire appears to already work well enough. There are cases where jack is preferable or where pipewire cannot do the job but that's not an issue either since it's trivial to flip from pipewire to jack, or jack to pipewire on one's workstation. It takes me all of about 4 seconds (if that) to switch between one or the other.

I read it that way that you need pretty often switch from pw to jack and back. That sounds like stuff I want to avoid. Most of the musci programs I use can't recover from jack die and come back, so such jumping would mean restarting those programs.

But yeah, I am on camp 'anything that works is ok for me'.

[asbak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1erjP1P8FCY

yeah, switching from jack to pipewire and back, that sounds interesting.
Ok, interesting is the new boring.
Sounds like another misleading idea.
Go on - follow the self declared experts. they will lead you to the light (or somewhere near by)

[asbak]

Typical users won't need to switch. In some cases firewire audio FFADO drivers work better than ALSA. (It also kinda depends on the hw, there is no one size fits all here).

In such cases pipewire is not ideal because it doesn't work with the FFADO drivers and in such cases one would be better off running on Jack. Unless you have such hardware it's not really an issue.

Another example, if for whatever reason you want to use NetJack, afaik that isn't in Pipewire so again, you'll have to use native Jack.
If such scenarios don't apply to you then you can pretty much just stay in Pipewire.

Either way, both can get a typical job done. If I knew how to take latency measures I guess that could be an interesting experiment to compare how much of a difference if any remains now when setting jack or pw to usable (meaning, buffers that will handle most playing scenarios) buffers.

I read it that way that you need pretty often switch from pw to jack and back. That sounds like stuff I want to avoid. Most of the musci programs I use can't recover from jack die and come back, so such jumping would mean restarting those programs.

[asbak]

Oh don't misunderstand, even though it's about you there's no requirement for you to look at it.

and I am not reading your comments - and I am not opening any kind of links lol.
No time, no trust

[tavasti]

and I am not reading your comments - and I am not opening any kind of links lol.
No time, no trust

Are you here on a mission to disturb discussion? None of your comments in this thread have any valuable contribution to discussion, and this thread would benefit from cleanup from your comments and responses to them (including all my responses to you).

[Impostor]

wow, people talking shit and lies, trying to stirr up and manipulate others and then when I am drawing a line and tell you that I dont read your comments you are attacking me further.BRAVO!
I dont care what evil people try to communicate, never :D :x :!: :?: :P :) :( :oops: :idea: :arrow: :cry: :o :shock: :evil: :| :mrgreen: :twisted: 8) :roll: :wink: :wink: :lol:

Tip: if you claim not to read comments, don't reply.

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[Loki Harfagr]

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