PipeWire

[PongPoku]

A smart person could probably easily bridge jack1 and pipewire without installing pipewire.jack, probably with loopdevices.
yeah, using here openrc since several years, and I dont have any issues here.

loop device can easily produce xruns while CPU usage is near 100%. I'd rather use pipewire's jack API.

When you bridge one audio system with another, you get xruns when CPU usage is near 100%. Xruns sound like pops and crackles.

Pipewire is good because it mimicks ALSA, Jack, and Pulseaudio.

OpenRC is good, but you are going to need something else if you want user service.

[Audiojunkie]

You’ve got valid points that I’ve thought about several times as well. I don’t have a good answer. I use Gnome. Gnome, Flatpak, Pipewire, Systemd, dbus—they are all tied together and interactively require each other. In one way, it unifies linux, which is good. But, it is the interdependencies on each other that concern me. It should be easy to swap these parts out with better parts when they come along—or if they “need” to be changed because of bad actors with things such as telemetry. I’ve read opinions from longtime freedom advocates as well as seasoned system admins—the opinions are mixed. I personally have taken a watch and see approach. Fedora has not yet tried any of the many stunts that Canonical has tried, so that’s good. Bare bones distros like Arch exist that allow you to build what you want into a distro as well. I guess, if worse came to worst, there’s always FreeBSD. At this point, I haven’t seen and of the bad things happen, thankfully. I love Fedora, but I always have the worry at the back of my mind. I guess I’ll face that scenario (if it ever happens), when it does happen. In the meantime, it’s been my ideal distro, so I remain optimistic.

Try sway, OpenRC, and firejail in place of gnome, systemd, and flatpak.

I have largely replaced elogind with seatd, but elogind is still installed as a dependency.

You feel complacent, but evil can win. Evil won multiple times already. Don't let your guard down. The only thing that will defeat evil in the long run is freedom-oriented independent media outlets.

It's good to use alternative softwares, but softwares will not improve the big picture. Rather, the state of softwares reflects the big picture.

Thank you for the suggestions. However, I’m satisfied with what I’m using right now. IF Fedora were to make changes to their system that I don’t agree with, I’d move on to something else. But they haven’t—yet.

My only real worry is that various development teams, in the Linux community, are making increasingly complex interdependencies between each other, making it harder and harder to swap out a component if desired. In my example mentioned in one of the posts above, I mentioned Gnome. Gnome “requires” systemd in order to run. Ideally, the Gnome team should be the ones to make their software not “require” systemd in order to work. That’s Gnome’s fault, not Fedora’s fault. I personally use and like Gnome for its touchscreen advances primarily, but we have plenty of desktop environments to choose from—even within the same distros. Touchscreen support is slowly getting better for other desktop environments, so I don’t feel threatened.

Fedora’s fault with Systemd is breaking the cardinal unix rule: “Do one thing and do it well”, which allows for an increasingly flexible set of options for users—similar to a modular synthesizer. Systemd does way more than one thing, and it has continuous feature creep. This can lead to security holes, instability, etc. It is the fault of the entire Linux community that they have all adopted systemd despite comments and concerns. The controversy split the Debian community—my other favorite distro. And yet, despite all this, systemd works pretty well, and simplifies things greatly.

My point is this—yes, Fedora created systemd, but there is plenty of blame to go around for the “potential” problem that has come of it. Linux community heavyweights are not unaware of the potential problem. While all of the major distros are continuing to support and embrace systemd, I’ll not worry.

As for flatpak, I like it. It is not without its problems, of course, but it solves the linux GUI application unification problem better than any of the other existing options—in my opinion. It allows a distro to continue with its preferred packaging system. It’s the best thing currently available in a linux world where various distros refuse to adopt a common base. Until something better comes along to replace it, I find it more helpful than the alternatives. And even the alternatives can all work on the same system if you are careful.

I’ve spent a lot of time and effort determining what is important to me in a distro. While Fedora is not perfect, I haven’t yet found something that works better for me. I’m pretty satisfied at the moment.

[PongPoku]

My only real worry is that various development teams, in the Linux community, are making increasingly complex interdependencies between each other, making it harder and harder to swap out a component if desired. In my example mentioned in one of the posts above, I mentioned Gnome. Gnome “requires” systemd in order to run.

Much of interdependency is intentional and driven by a few commercial companies which are in turn driven by one or two investment companies.

A giant web of Interdependency is a blackhole, the gravity of which will grow so large that eventually nothing can escape its gravity. It's a growing black hole.

I am trying to stay away from it, but you can only win in the long run by supporting or running independent media outlets.

The root of their power is mostly media outlets. Pen is mightier than sword because it is pen that controls sword. It is media outlets that publicly issue march orders to every other institution including governments and corporations. People of the world subconsciously follow the loudest voice that repeats over and over. The biggest source of voice is media outlets. Those who own major media outlets control the world. People think governments are above media, but it's the opposite. Without media outlets telling people to create and maintain governments, governments will cease to exist. With another kind of media outlets, people will build an entirely different civilization.

What I'm saying is that you need to adress the root cause rather than treating the symptoms created by the root cause. The root cause is bad media.

It's okay for you to not use alternative softwares. But, you should support freedom-oriented independent media outlets if you can't run one. See whether you can personally support them with transport, money, or other kinds of life support because they may need your help.

[Baggypants]

I can't belive people are still bringing up the unix philosophy of "do one thing well" in a forum dedicated to the most monolithic apps available. Even Carla, jalv or Non are monolithic compared to the text utilities around when that idea was invented.

Pipewire is coming along fine and is currently supported.

[folderol]

Well I just use what works for me... which doesn't include any of the above

[PongPoku]

I can't belive people are still bringing up the unix philosophy of "do one thing well" in a forum dedicated to the most monolithic apps available. Even Carla, jalv or Non are monolithic compared to the text utilities around when that idea was invented.

Pipewire is coming along fine and is currently supported.

Rather, the philosophy is to take care of one concept or a set of related concepts well without a huge web of interdependency.

People behind systemd are intentionally creating a gigantic web of interdependency which is simply not necessary or desired. Systemd also has a lot of things that are simply not desired for an init system.

Conceptual modularity and conceptual decoupling still matter.

At least, carla doesn't try to add itself to a gigantic web of interdependency. Carla is conceptually decoupled from the giant web of interdependencies. It also takes responsibility for one well-defined concept.

Carla is a fully-featured modular audio plugin host, with support for many audio drivers and plugin formats.

It is simply a modular audio plugin host with GUI. Don't lump carla with other monolithic softwares like systemd. It is still doing one thing well and doesn't entangle itself with lots of other unrelated programs. Systemd is now a giant spaghetti of unrelated concepts and entangles itself with lots of unrelated programs.

Pipewire has a bit of coupling with flatpak and systemd, but integration with flatpak and systemd can be disabled. Pipewire is coupled with dbus through portal service which is required for capturing wayland screen. But, pipewire is still far more modular and decoupled than systemd. It accepts tentacles from outside, but it is still not trying to extend its tentacles beyond real-time processing of audio and video voraciously.

Systemd is the worst offender. DBus is unneccesary. I wish people used plain unix sockets instead of dbus.