jack standalone vs LV2

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grammo
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jack standalone vs LV2

Post by grammo »

Somewhere in my head there was this idea that a plugin in a LV2 host like Jalv, would essentially be a Jack application.
Jalv website: "It runs LV2 plugins and exposes their ports as Jack ports, essentially making any LV2 plugin function as a Jack application."

But then you launch the standalone version of Vital and it gives you the option to right click on a knob in the GUI for midi learn.

In Jalv this doesn't work. Ok, so it lacks that feature probably?

Then let's try Carla. Doesn't work. What does work is: click on the toolbox, click on parameters, search in a huge list of parameters (without search function), if you've finally found your parameter, click on the button with the 3 dots, click on midi learn. You're ready for your next parameter (* x times). Click away the toolbox.

Do your workflow math. Compare with standalone.

Do I miss something, or is this just a major drawback of (LV2) plugins?

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LAM
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Re: jack standalone vs LV2

Post by LAM »

The fact the direct MIDI learn doesn't work in Vital LV2 doesn't mean it doesn't work with every LV2 plugin.

Direct MIDI learn, from the plugin's GUI, works in Surge XT and Odin 2, just to name a couple of examples.

Probably Vital disables direct midi learn functionalities when launched as LV2 plugin, the same happens in Vitalium that comes only in plugin format and have no standalone version.

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Re: jack standalone vs LV2

Post by grammo »

Heh your signature, lol.

You're right. It even works in Jalv with Surge XT. So this should be fixed in Vitalium if one wants to have a reasonable workflow when working without a DAW as host.

I was thinking Vital(ium) would need proper JACK support and NSM support to improve workflow, but if plugins can work like Surge XT in Jalv, adding NSM support to Jalv and other (Clap/ VST3)* standalone plugin hosts might be more effective.

*Are there dedicated one-task-one-tool standalone Clap and VST3 plugin hosts like jalv.gtk? There is Carla which does a lot, but I prefer a host that makes a plugin feel like a standalone application.

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Re: jack standalone vs LV2

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Re: jack standalone vs LV2

Post by grammo »

ok, via SIGUSR1. Would be nice if that would be native NSM, but then it needs some kind of minimal GUI at least I think. Same for Jalv. I see that Jalv has a 'plugin-selector' gui now, not sure if that would help to start with.

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Re: jack standalone vs LV2

Post by grammo »

The VST3 version of Vital has direct midi learn. So it's probably a issue in Vitalium then.

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Re: jack standalone vs LV2

Post by grammo »

LAM wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:00 pm

carla-single: viewtopic.php?p=152592#p152592

Carla-Single can load a file (*.carxs) I noticed. So it should be able to restore it's state too indeed. So it should work in NSM-Proxy or a similar application.

NSM doesn't accept command line arguments directly. viewtopic.php?p=147735#p147735
So I think Carla-Single needs a simple GUI at least to let the user select a plugin. Then it needs to load it's file based on the path info the NSM server is providing. Note that Carla has NSM support, just not Carla-Single. Looking at the issue tracker of Carla, NSM support for Carla-Single it's scheduled for version 3.0, not sure what the plans are atm. Advantage of Carla-Single is that is gives you LV2, VST, Cap etc. support of course.

The Jalv dev stated in the past that he would be open to accept a patch for NSM support. Now that it has a simple plugin selector GUI, that might have become easier to implement, not sure. I noticed it can load a saved dir with the -l option.

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Re: jack standalone vs LV2

Post by LAM »

grammo wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:35 am

Then it needs to load it's file based on the path info the NSM server is providing.

That's why I use RaySession, it does exactly that: carla-single finds (and saves with SIGUSR1) the carla state file from its subdirectory in the session folder, since it launches carla-single from that path.

The screenshot I posted in that forum thread should have enough info you need to achieve that.

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Re: jack standalone vs LV2

Post by grammo »

The same can be done with NSM-Proxy, that's not specific for RaySession. I think it originates from Ladish or Lash, from the wiki:

"Some apps are programmed to save their current state when they receive the “SIGUSR1” Unix signal, and LADISH is able to send this signal to such apps. On receiving this signal, apps may then open a save file dialogue or save their state to a default file location. The user may need to load this state file manually after a session is restored."

https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manua ... gnals.html

It's useful in some cases, the downside imo is that devs are tempted to take the shortcut and implement this instead of NSM support, while the latter gives a much better and more reliable experience. Also it's not ideal imho to work with clients that have different kinds of session support, it makes it more complex and less reliable to work with at the end. YMMV.

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Re: jack standalone vs LV2

Post by LAM »

Sure, you can do with whatever session manager mechanism can do the above.

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