Mastering the loudness of a track

Practical tips for recording, editing, and mastering.

Moderators: MattKingUSA, khz

User avatar
Impostor
Established Member
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:55 pm
Has thanked: 138 times
Been thanked: 345 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by Impostor »

Death wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 1:36 am

EQ and compression are your main tools in mixing. Those are the things you really want to focus on getting good with. The rest is all dressing..

I'm playing around with LSP compressor on a drumtrack now. So far I'm able to produce a flam effect, and a reverb-like one. Not sure if it's an improvement yet :)

folderol
Established Member
Posts: 2069
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Here, of course!
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 400 times
Contact:

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by folderol »

Another thing to watch out for is 'ducking'. This is where a compressor or look-ahead limiter is on the final stage. A peak will lower the entire signal, and it will take a finite time for the signal level to recover, so maybe that kick is tamed, but you then can't hear the next word from the singer. Therefore I would advise these to only be applied to individual tracks, with just a final very light limiter on the end.

The Yoshimi guy {apparently now an 'elderly'}
Death
Established Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:43 pm
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by Death »

Impostor wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:47 am
Death wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 1:36 am

EQ and compression are your main tools in mixing. Those are the things you really want to focus on getting good with. The rest is all dressing..

I'm playing around with LSP compressor on a drumtrack now. So far I'm able to produce a flam effect, and a reverb-like one. Not sure if it's an improvement yet :)

Sounds like you're using a delay rather than a compressor :shock: It's definitely a compressor?

folderol wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:46 pm

Another thing to watch out for is 'ducking'. This is where a compressor or look-ahead limiter is on the final stage. A peak will lower the entire signal, and it will take a finite time for the signal level to recover, so maybe that kick is tamed, but you then can't hear the next word from the singer. Therefore I would advise these to only be applied to individual tracks, with just a final very light limiter on the end.

Well you should compress things in stages before they even reach the master bus and then use a moderate amount of intelligent compression once you're at the final stage because that's all you'll want if you've got it right further back in the chain. It takes lots of practice compressing smaller group buses first to be able to do it right though so I wouldn't advise master bus compression at first, just a limiter catching the highest peaks and reducing about 3db. Bus compression can give an effect similar to sidechain compression where you purposefully make things duck out and it can sound awesome (I compress bass & drums together for this purpose because as the kick & snare activate the compressor, the bass will get the effect of ducking out of the way - just like sidechain compressing the bass off of the drums would do). I strongly disagree with advising to only compress on individual tracks. If you do that you will never get the benefit of movement created/enhanced by compressors! That is one of the greatest things about them...

I think the drum bus is one of the best ways to use bus compression, especially for learning how compressors create movement. The kick & the snare usually have the highest peaks and will cause all of the drum sounds on the bus, to duck out & make way for them. The high-hats, for example, will rise & fall in volume which creates movement & feeling to what might've before been a very static & boring beat. And of course, you can apply this method to buses with other instruments running through them which I strongly advise! You do this all over your song and you'll feel it come to life, especially if it was lacking feel before doing so. Once you get your head around this technique you'll feel like you've really levelled up :)

User avatar
Impostor
Established Member
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:55 pm
Has thanked: 138 times
Been thanked: 345 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by Impostor »

Death wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:38 pm

Sounds like you're using a delay rather than a compressor :shock: It's definitely a compressor?

:) Yeah, it says so on the box.

Attachments
High_pressure_compressor_BellisMorcom.jpg
High_pressure_compressor_BellisMorcom.jpg (29.04 KiB) Viewed 4684 times
Death
Established Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:43 pm
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by Death »

@impostor That's so weird. I don't know how you've managed that because I've never been able to get a compressor to make those effects! Maybe you're onto something :lol:

User avatar
Loki Harfagr
Established Member
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:28 pm
Has thanked: 151 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by Loki Harfagr »

Death wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:11 am

@impostor That's so weird. I don't know how you've managed that because I've never been able to get a compressor to make those effects! Maybe you're onto something :lol:

I guess he's using the compressed track parallel to source track and hasn't compensated the latency which then might play some flam or slap et al :wink:

User avatar
Impostor
Established Member
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:55 pm
Has thanked: 138 times
Been thanked: 345 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by Impostor »

Death wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:11 am

@impostor That's so weird. I don't know how you've managed that because I've never been able to get a compressor to make those effects! Maybe you're onto something :lol:

I think it (kind of) makes sense that a not-too-short attack coupled with short release could produce a flam from a single hit. And a long attack with long release just smearing out the sound could be reminiscent of a reverb.

Anyway, those are not the effects I'm looking for with a compressor. Problem is, I don't know what I am looking for either :)

Death
Established Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:43 pm
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by Death »

Loki Harfagr wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:04 am

I guess he's using the compressed track parallel to source track and hasn't compensated the latency which then might play some flam or slap et al :wink:

That's a good point actually! There might be some latency delay issues happening here..

Impostor wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:44 pm

I think it (kind of) makes sense that a not-too-short attack coupled with short release could produce a flam from a single hit. And a long attack with long release just smearing out the sound could be reminiscent of a reverb.

Anyway, those are not the effects I'm looking for with a compressor. Problem is, I don't know what I am looking for either :)

That's astounding. On one hand you appear to have little knowledge of compressors, how they work or what you might want to do with them, then on the other you present knowledge like that which displays a good understanding of how a compressor might affect the sound! I suppose that does mostly depend on whether or not me and you have the same idea of what a short or long attack/release is. Still, it shows you are really thinking about how they work so keep going!

Start by practising with the release control on about 150 ms and then just play with the attack control. If you don't hear any difference then lower the threshold until you can. Just remember to use makeup gain to compensate for the compression that's happening when the signal gets compressed; The more it gets compressed the more makeup gain you will need. The idea is to get it to sound as loud (not more, not less, just the same level) as the uncompressed signal. This way you can turn the compressor on & off to A/B compare the compressed and uncompressed signal and hear what you've actually done.

Loudness matching levels like this is very important when doing any kind of processing because it's the only way you can make a good judgement about whether or not you've actually improved something. Because otherwise you can get tricked into thinking something sounds better when it actually just sounds louder, or vice versa, thinking it sounds worse when it actually just sounds quieter; Loudness matching will make it all clear :wink:

User avatar
Impostor
Established Member
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:55 pm
Has thanked: 138 times
Been thanked: 345 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by Impostor »

Death wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:06 pm

Just remember to use makeup gain to compensate for the compression that's happening when the signal gets compressed; The more it gets compressed the more makeup gain you will need. The idea is to get it to sound as loud (not more, not less, just the same level) as the uncompressed signal. This way you can turn the compressor on & off to A/B compare the compressed and uncompressed signal and hear what you've actually done.

Ah, okay. I haven't fiddled around with makeup gain yet. I'll keep that in mind.

User avatar
Impostor
Established Member
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:55 pm
Has thanked: 138 times
Been thanked: 345 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by Impostor »

artix_linux_user wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:53 pm

take the long way home

I've given up on compressors for now. Learning quantum mechanics was easier.

tseaver
Established Member
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:07 am
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by tseaver »

Ian Shepherd's video with Joe Gilder this week seems relevant to the topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgYxWmJLaE4

Ubuntu, Mixbus32C; acoustic blues / country / jazz
Death
Established Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:43 pm
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by Death »

artix_linux_user wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:53 pm

not neccessarily - one golden rule is that you normally apply compressor in a way that it is not audible.
Then, you probably do not have to pull the make up gain up again.
I am thinking of a situation where you have several tracks in one project and on the master section, the signals are too loud - then you would want to use a compressor to adapt the gain in a way, that it is not too loud then, any more.
Then, in that situation, you probably do not want to pull the gain up again.

take the long way home

Using a compressor in a 'transparent' way is only one of many different goals with a compressor. If your only goal is simply to reduce some very high peaks in a signal without affecting anything below them - you just want to reduce the dynamic range & nothing more, then I can see why you're saying what you're saying. But if that's all you do with them then you're missing out big time. I rarely ever want transparency from a compressor. I use them to shape sounds and create movement.

Either way, whether you want transparency or not, makeup gain is important. The reason it's important is because you use it to bring the level back up (which has been reduced from the compression) so that it sounds equally as loud as the uncompressed signal (Not more, not less - just the same loudness). The reason you need to do this is that our ears get tricked into thinking things sound better just because they sound louder. So if you make it so that when you A/B compare a processed & unprocessed signal, they both have the same loudness, you're much better able to hear what difference you've actually made and not so easily be tricked into thinking one thing sounds better just because it sounds louder :wink:

And yes, Ian Shepherd is good at educating about this topic which is known as 'psychoacoustics'.

novalix
Established Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:12 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by novalix »

Death wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:17 pm

Either way, whether you want transparency or not, makeup gain is important. The reason it's important is because you use it to bring the level back up (which has been reduced from the compression) so that it sounds equally as loud as the uncompressed signal (Not more, not less - just the same loudness).

Let me add one thing:
If your compression reduced the peak level of the signal and you make up by turning up the gain (one could also use the fader to do that), then what you get is really not quite the "same" loudness. The effect is, that you brought up lower level information. That is quite easy to discern, if your signal contains a significant portion of noise or bleed. While this kind of lower level information might be unwanted, what you gain (pun intended) is, you raised the level of the upper harmonics of the signal. This can (and most times should be) a subtle effect even if one uses an analog device (or a digitally modeled plugin) which adds some saturation on top (in this case the make up gain knob makes a difference to using the fader).

This is one reason to apply some light compression in multiple places, not only on the master bus.

User avatar
sysrqer
Established Member
Posts: 2519
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:47 pm
Has thanked: 319 times
Been thanked: 148 times
Contact:

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by sysrqer »

artix_linux_user wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:37 am

If you use compressor for mastering the loudness of a track...
you want to make it less loud - compressors are normally not used for making things louder but for making them less loud.

I don't really agree with this. You would normally make things have less dynamic range but not less loud. Of course, a compressor will usually make things quieter but when compensation gain is applied (which should be done to judge what difference it has made) you will actually make the signal louder.

User avatar
Impostor
Established Member
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:55 pm
Has thanked: 138 times
Been thanked: 345 times

Re: Mastering the loudness of a track

Post by Impostor »

artix_linux_user wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:37 am

The topic was:
Mastering the loudness of a track

If you use compressor for mastering the loudness of a track...
you want to make it less loud

Actually, I wanted to increase the loudness, but some peaks were in the way and needed taming before I could amplify the signal without clipping. Did that without a compressor by the way.

Post Reply