Wow - here we go!

[Martin A]

Hi everyone !
For ages now, well anyway that's how it seems, probably once once a year or so, I've been testing various Linux distributions to see if I can dump Windows.
Main problems were always - no printer driver and worse, no drivers for my Motu gear.
Well, haven't we all been down that road, somehow ?

I was inspired recently by Unfa and his great tutorials, also last year by 'interfacing linux' showing how a Mr (takaswie) was writing Motu drivers into the Kernel from 5.14

Still, last year I couldn't make it work.
So yesterday I found a 'Canon' driver for my printer that works via house network Ethernet and Manjaro prints perfectly to it via WLAN!

So - all exited about that - I plugged in my Motu Traveler Mk1 and fiddled around with Jack etc.
NO LUCK
Jack server will never start for me.

Then I fired up Reaper and found the Traveler Mk1 in there as Alsa ins and outs!
I loaded up some multi track projects and hit go.
Apart from the missing vsts it worked beautifully with hardly any system load and low katency!

Could my luck hold out and let me use the Motu Traveler Mk3 ?

NOPE

I was on stable Manjaro with 5.15 but I remembered reading about the kernel holding the drivers and do I grabbed 6.01rc2

AND WOULD YOU BELIEVE?

Traveler Mk3 is working, all ins outs appear in ALSA!

So for me, Christmas came early this year after being dissapointed so many times in the past.

I'm so grateful for the programmer's who put this together in the background.

Loving Manjaro btw. so unobtrusive and stable.
I'm still a Linux newbie but learning quite fast.

Perfect would be if someone could kick start me into Alsa Midi so I can run Pianoteq ???

Currently if I activate Midi in Reaper the system freezes.

So who am I?
(I'll start another post )

[Impostor]

Hi everyone !
For ages now, well anyway that's how it seems, probably once once a year or so, I've been testing various Linux distributions to see if I can dump Windows.

Ha! Two years ago I was so fed up with W*ndows I ditched it no matter the consequences. Linux exceeded all my expectations though. User control is simply unrivalled. Add the endless audio and midi routing possibilities with Jack, add Steam Proton for game compatibility, add the availability of quality software, I'm almost surprised Windows is so popular still.

Pianoteq is wonderful software. It needed no tweaking at all to get it running here: Alsa midi just works. What problems do you have?

Currently if I activate Midi in Reaper the system freezes.

Ah. I don't use Reaper. But Pianoteq is also standalone. Does that work?

[Linuxmusician01]

[...]
Jack server will never start for me.

Then I fired up Reaper and found the Traveler Mk1 in there as Alsa ins and outs!
[...]
Currently if I activate Midi in Reaper the system freezes.
[...]

If ALSA recognizes the audio card then Jack should work. Only caveat is that I don't know if Manjaro already uses Pipewire (PW) as its default audio server (PW is relatively new, I don't have it yet). What's the difference between ALSA and PW I hear you think? ALSA is the driver for audio devices. Audio servers (like PW, Pulseaudio, Jack, etc.) are a layer on top of that to make it possible that (for instance) more than one application at the time can play audio etc.

So, if you have the proper driver loaded for your Motu audio device then Jackaudio should work. I don't know how this works with Pipewire running (somebody w/ more experience w/ PW might enlighten you) but I start Jack like so:

1. Determine the "number" of your audio card with the command:

   Code: Select all

   cat /proc/asound/cards

   Example of output:

   Code: Select all

   $ cat /proc/asound/cards
    0 [CMI8738        ]: CMI8738-MC6 - C-Media CMI8738
                         C-Media CMI8738 (model 55) at 0xd000, irq 20
    1 [PCH            ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
                         HDA Intel PCH at 0xf7c10000 irq 31
    2 [U192k          ]: USB-Audio - UMC404HD 192k
                         BEHRINGER UMC404HD 192k at usb-0000:00:1a.0-1.2, high speed
   

   So the number of my USB audio device from Behringer is number 2.

2. Start Jack with the following minimal command (notice the hw:2 because my audio hardware has number 2):

   Code: Select all

   jackd -d alsa --device hw:2
   

Remember that in a DAW (Reaper, Ardour, Audacity, etc.) and, more general, in all audio software you yourself must choose in the Settings which audio server/driver you choose. Like ALSA (without audio server), Pipewire, Jackaudio, Puilseaudio etc. Then restart the software (nor your whole system). If you didn't choose the right one your software may crash.

Welcome and good luck puzzeling w/ audio on Linux.

[Basslint]

Welcome, you won't regret doing the switch (TM)

[Martin A]

Hi Imposter,

Pianoteq standalone won't work with ALSA alone for me.
Ive tried another old firewire card - Phase 24 from Terratec and that's the same. Great for audio through ALSA but midi bites the dust.

Thanks Linuxmusician01,

I got Jack running with Motu and Terratec Phase 24.
Shame, both work with much less CPU with ALSA.
Pianoteq runs nicely in Reaper as a plugin but the hardware midi problem ALSA seems to have really shows here - freezing up sporadically.

Jack costs CPU
A project with Jack in Reaper used 15% compared to 7.5% with ALSA (until it froze)

So I wish I could get MIDI to be reliable in native ALSA???

All in all I'm very excited - and this time it's for real!
No looking back.
I'm loving the unobtrusive nature of Manjaro and it knocks W10 to sixes and sevens on performance.

I'm testing this tripple boot on a Dell E4310 i5 2,4Ghz with 4Giga Ram
Manjaro, Sparkylinux and W10

[Impostor]

You're connecting a midi keyboard to the audio interface? What if you connect it directly to a USB port?

[Martin A]

You're connecting a midi keyboard to the audio interface? What if you connect it directly to a USB port?

Yes, er well, as I did with that 'other' system for years.
I'll dig around and see if I can find a USB midi adapter. . . .

[Linuxmusician01]

I got Jack running with Motu and Terratec Phase 24.

That's great.

Shame, both work with much less CPU with ALSA.
[...]
So I wish I could get MIDI to be reliable in native ALSA???
[...]
I'm testing this tripple boot on a Dell E4310 i5 2,4Ghz with 4Giga Ram
Manjaro, Sparkylinux and W10

I'm no hardware expert. Is is a recent PC or laptop? Jack may use some CPU on my system but not much and I have a really old computer (older than 5 years). BTW If I were you I'd choose a different Linux distribution. One with which a lot of people on the internet have experience, like Ubuntu or Debian. And use a light-weight desktop environment like XFCE.

Anyway, it is possible to connect audio Midi stuff without using Jack. I believe it goes like this:

1. Determine Midi ports:

   Code: Select all

   aconnect -iol

2. Type connect ports like so:

   Code: Select all

   aconnect port_number_1  port__number2

Good luck!

[Impostor]

Anyway, it is possible to connect audio Midi stuff without using Jack. I believe it goes like this:

1. Determine Midi ports:

   Code: Select all

   aconnect -iol

2. Type connect ports like so:

   Code: Select all

   aconnect port_number_1  port__number2

Well, Pianoteq standalone only shows up with

Code: Select all

aconnect -l

(not with aconnect -i, -o, or -iol). And only if a midi port selection has already been made in its midi settings dialogue, by which point you'd already have a midi connection.

But [aconnect -i] should at least list his midi keyboard or the midi port of his audio interface, if it works.

[Impostor]

For troubleshooting, you can find out if your midi controller is recognized, and if your pc actually receives its signals:

When you've connected your midi controller, aconnect -i should show something like

Code: Select all

~$ aconnect -i
client 0: 'System' [type=kernel]
    0 'Timer           '
    1 'Announce        '
client 14: 'Midi Through' [type=kernel]
    0 'Midi Through Port-0'
client 24: 'Keystation 49 MK3' [type=kernel,card=2]
    0 'Keystation 49 MK3 Keystation 49'

So Alsa recognises my Keystation 49 Midi keyboard. Its port number is 24:0. If you now use aseqdump -p 24:0 you can monitor the midi signals sent by it:

Code: Select all

~$ aseqdump -p 24:0
Waiting for data. Press Ctrl+C to end.
Source  Event                  Ch  Data
 24:0   Note on                 0, note 36, velocity 73
 24:0   Note off                0, note 36, velocity 61

Here I pressed a single key on the midi keyboard.

[Linuxmusician01]

For troubleshooting, you can find out if your midi controller is recognized, and if your pc actually receives its signals:

When you've connected your midi controller, aconnect -i should show something like

Code: Select all

~$ aconnect -i
client 0: 'System' [type=kernel]
    0 'Timer           '
    1 'Announce        '
client 14: 'Midi Through' [type=kernel]
    0 'Midi Through Port-0'
client 24: 'Keystation 49 MK3' [type=kernel,card=2]
    0 'Keystation 49 MK3 Keystation 49'

So Alsa recognises my Keystation 49 Midi keyboard. Its port number is 24:0. If you now use aseqdump -p 24:0 you can monitor the midi signals sent by it:

Code: Select all

~$ aseqdump -p 24:0
Waiting for data. Press Ctrl+C to end.
Source  Event                  Ch  Data
 24:0   Note on                 0, note 36, velocity 73
 24:0   Note off                0, note 36, velocity 61

Here I pressed a single key on the midi keyboard.

Exactly. If the Midi keyboard doesn't even show up then it's not (properly) connected or it isn't Midi class compliant (not supported by Alsa). How the topic starter managed to even get it working the first time is a complete mystery to me if aconnect won't show it.

Maybe that's why the DAW crashed: the Midi keyb. connecting and disconnecting? Hardware issue?

I can't imagine that Jackaudio (which has its own Midi implementation/version) can "see" the Midi kb. and Alsa cannot. I give up.

[Martin A]

Ok, I spent some time analysing the problem yesterday.

Good I have triple boot so I first tested:

both interfaces with their on board Midi on W10
Both work fine recording into Reaper and other Apps.

MOTU or Terratec Phase 24 / Manjaro / Pianoteq standalone / Alsa
= doesn't recognise the Firewire drivers and offer usb.
=Freeze

Manjaro plug in in native Linux reaper works great but freezes when activating the hardware Midi input.
I'm beginning to think my touch pad is conflicting with the pci Firewire card. I turned touch pad off.

Now I got both interfaces working for minutes at a time. Usually still freezing when opening the midi editor in reaper.

So I switched to Sparky and got a big surprise.
This system was from last year.
Reaper ran with ALSA and the Phase24 card with no freezing regardless of what I did.
I decided - time to ditch Manjaro!
BUT
Sparky wanted to update everything, after all a lot happened in a year.
Tragically after that the system is completely useless and does not work with either interface.
(I have no time shift)

So it's good to know that ALSA can work.
Shame about Sparky - see you next year!

Back to Manjaro.
After countless reboots I started messing with Jack and found, after trying all different buffer settings, that 64 / 3 works perfectly for both the Terratec Phase 24 and the Motu Traveler Mk3 !!!

Jack starts up like a rusty Norton and needs kickstarting 2 or 3 times before it stays on - but then:

To push for problems I loaded this lot up:
a 10 track Audio project with some compressers / limiters / eqs
2 projects with Pianoteq single tracks.

All 3 projects played back simultaneously until the laptop went to sleep
Both interfaces work reliably. Hardware Midi is active.
Pianotec showed the odd CPU glitch and Reaper showed overall system load of Ca. 58%

Thats brilliant isn't it?

My gut feeling is I'd prefer pure ALSA drivers and I've no idea why Jack can do it better.
But now it all works even if I feel I'm tiptoeing on ice.

All thought on any of this are welcome!

Next problem will be which laptop to upgrade to.
Thunderbolt to Firewire. Maybe better in a new thread?

[Linuxmusician01]

[...]
doesn't recognise the Firewire drivers and offer usb.
Freeze

Manjaro plug in in native Linux reaper works great but freezes when activating the hardware Midi input.

Sorry, only now I see that you mentioned firewire a few posts ago.

Had I read that better then I wouldn't have wasted your time by advising you to try "this and that". Firewire, unfortunately, is depricated, by Apple also who were the ones that used it the most. Looks to me like the device supports audio over USB but Midi only over firewire. I don't know why, but I think that causes the crashes when you try to use Midi. Windows and Apple might have drivers installed for this: either by you or out of the box. Heck, maybe Windows and Apple still work with firewire (if you have such an card in your computer).

So I switched to Sparky and got a big surprise.

I take it that "Sparky" is a Linux distribution?

[...]
My gut feeling is I'd prefer pure ALSA drivers and I've no idea why Jack can do it better.

I'm sorry, but my gut feeling is that it doesn't work well. Maybe it does in your situation for a (short) time but doesn't your system still crash when you
start Midi? We're talking two different audio devices at the same time if I'm not mistaken. And that's too confusing for me. Especially since, at the same time, we're also discussing more than one distro at the time, neither of which I'm familiar with either.

And to clear things up (all of us Linuxers get confused by this in the beginning) THE audio driver is ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture). Jackaudio is a "layer" on top of this (an "audio server"). Jack is NOT the driver. Jack can NOT work without a driver and the driver is ALSA. One might get better results sometimes with Alsa only and no audio server on top (a Raspberry Pi springs to mind).

Have you checked if you have other audio servers running like Pulseaudio or Pipewire? The Linux distributions that you use are so exotic that I've got no idea what audio server they use per default.

All thought on any of this are welcome!

Next problem will be which laptop to upgrade to.
Thunderbolt to Firewire. Maybe better in a new thread?

I don't know what Thunderbolt is, so I'd stick with USB if I were you. And if you really want to use Linux (there's no shame in using Windows!) I'm afraid you are gonna have to invest time and money to buy Linux compatible (that is: class compliant) audio hardware. Same goes for printers: HP printers appear to work fine w./ Linux, Canon seems to be a disaster...

Good luck, I'll de-subscribe from this topic: I'm not familiar w/ the (to me: exotic) distro's you use and Firewire is too much of a snake-pit for me.

[Impostor]

I'm with Linuxmusician01. I'm glad for you it all seems to be working now, but I also have no idea what firewire and thunderbolt are, and what the best course of action could be!

As for those CPU glitches, they may be possibly solved by setting your cpu's to performance mode instead of on-demand (if at all possible on your system). I do this with a script which works on Linux Mint. How you can do it on Manjaro is a mere Google search away..

As long as you don't mind troubleshooting and tweaking and all, you don't need to make it easy for yourself :)
Good luck!

[folderol]

For a dedicated setup using specifically a single sound source (Yoshimi in my case), directly accessing ALSA will give noticeably better results than anything else. You do have to remove the pulseaudio server if it is there, otherwise it will interfere. Also, the software has to know how to set up an ALSA connection properly. It is of course more relevant with lower power kit. Two in particular I'm familiar with are an EeePC 901 and Raspberry Pi 4B