I know two people who died from Sars-CoV-2, do you know anyone?

[CrocoDuck]

I do see a death-toll from corona, that does not exceed the number of people dying from flue in 2019.

I am really struggling to understand this too. I cannot quite see how you are obtaining these figures. See here the conclusive report fort the 2018-2019 epidemics in my region of Italy, published on the 24th of June 2019.

From the report:

In questa stagione influenzale sono stati segnalati complessivamente 172 casi gravi.

Translates to "During this season a total of 172 severe cases have been encountered". About deaths:

Tra i casi gravi si sono registrati 57 decessi

Translates to "among the severe cases we recorded 57 deaths". In the table below one can see the deaths in my home town were 2.

Now, the total number of deaths from covid, up to now, in the same Italian region is 13189. Data can be found in this open source repository, from which it is aggregated in many places including Google search.

Now, I am not one to not commit obvious mistakes, and I have might have done something dumb here, but could you please explain in detail:

• The source of your data; and
• The data processing by which your reach your conclusions?

As of now, the deaths from COVID-19 in my region of Italy appear to be several orders of magnitude larger than that of the flu in preceding years.

[TAERSH]

If you're not going to get vaccinated then maybe don't take your heart medication, or get chemotherapy for cancer or use your phone or drive your car with it's internal combustion engine

Oh my GOD! Seriously?

Thanks for only using half of my quote, the half without the actual point attached to it...

What I quoted was the mean part of your statement. I never heard of anyone not having heart diseases or not having cancer who would be forced or under any pressure to take medics against the heart disease or chemo against cancer. This part of your statement is so-to-say nonsense. As these people who are suffer from heart disease or cancer are in the need to have their medics or even chemo.

Would you, would anyone take a chemo or medics against heart diseases just as a prophylaxis?

Surely NOT!

Taking the Sars-CoV-2 vaccine is taking it for prophylaxis. You still can get infected, you still can infect others - even though, you might not dying from it. But this even might change by the mutations created inside of the bodies of vaccinated people.

Is anyone willing to get a new vaccination each and every six months, as they already suggested a need for it?

I don't.

[CrocoDuck]

I think I found the report from which @merlyn data comes from: link and more information.

At page 51 we have a table where the total number of deaths in England is reported by year. Including uncertainty, we reach a max possible peak of a total of ~30000 deaths in 2014-2015. The current number of deaths from covid in England is ~112000.

[GMaq]

@TAERSH

I have to remind myself sometimes that exaggeration and sarcasm as devices to make a point don't always make it through the language barrier... If it seemed 'mean' that was not my intention and I regret that you interpreted that way.

My larger point was that it is hypocritical for people (including me) to blindly trust science for everyday normal things and then to so wildly mistrust science when a worldwide beneficial non-partisan effort to eliminate a global pandemic is being created and offered to all.. What is happening with these efforts is the BEST of what we humans are capable of and it is a great example of the kind of thinking and acting that are going to be required to enable us to solve the huge global problems of the future.

[tavasti]

Is anyone willing to get a new vaccination each and every six months, as they already suggested a need for it?

There is no need to be scared, that small needle does not hurt much! Even my kids are ok with it, I am sure you can take it.

And yeah, doubling vaccination rate from what I have for influenza, no problem.

[TAERSH]

@GMaq

Ok, in general I would agree to your larger point. But I don't see any worldwide beneficial non-partisan effort to eliminate a global pandemic. At least in my country all what I can see it's the usual suspects who create money from that. Dozens of scandals where politicians and others making hundreds of thousands Euros or even millions of Euros, arranging deals between pharma industry and ministries etc.pp.

Test centers also doing illegal stuff to increase their income for each test made and each test NOT made.

In my country, Germany, within the past twenty years politicians AND scientists were lying to the people in many cases. In some cases they also silenced not-agreeing experts/scientists, so that they didn't find any employment anymore and came into the need to work as a taxi driver. The guy I'm talking about was the only expert/scientist who didn't agree to a chosen location to store nuclear waste temporarily. All other scientists said, there's no danger, there could be no harm. Meanwhile this location is -as we in German say: ABGESOFFEN- which means it's now under water, the barrels became very rusty and it costs millions to dispose the nuclear waste. Though, they just don't know where to put it in the end.

@tavasti


I'm not afraid of the needle!
And as I already wrote: I don't take the yearly influenza vaccination and I never will do that.
So, why should I do that for Sars-CoV-2?

However: I want to get back to my original question:

Do you know anyone who died from Sars-CoV-2 and/or Covid19 (which I accidentally mixed up with Corona ).

[sunrat]

Definitions seem to still be getting confused. Simply explained:
Coronavirus is a class of virus which includes the current SARS-CoV-2, SARS-CoV-1 which caused the SARS outbreak in 2003, and MERS-CoV which caused the MERS outbreak in 2012.
COVID-19 is the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2
Corona is a crisp, easy-drinking lager. The beer has pleasant malt and hop notes, with a rounded, dry finish. Often drunk with a slice of lime. Also the Latin word for crown so can be used for crown-like objects such as a circle of light around a luminous body like the sun or moon. Certainly it has come into informal speech about the virus and disease, but is indefinite.

I think this thread has run its course. The facts are well-explained by our knowledgeable friends, and the alternative "facts" are in thanks to our credulous friends.

[Gps]

I am seriously thinking about ending the discussion.

This is for me not the first time having exact this same discussion with the same arguments form both sides.

I have allot of experience with forums.
On all the forums the shit hits the fan, when it comes to politics, or something like covid.

In this thread I am already starting to have a discussion with people I don't want to argue with.

A simple solution would be just to stop.

[Michael Willis]

Definitions seem to still be getting confused....

Corona is also the name of the kingdom in the movie Tangled.

[jonetsu]

I'm really happy the discussion around this potentially explosive topic has been fairly civil so far.

Because there's no firm opinion that go against the medias and politicians isn't it ?

If there is, then it does not matter if it's a polite discussion as it has to be closed ?

[jonetsu]

Do you know anyone who died from Sars-CoV-2 or even Corona?

Nope. People die from the flu all the time. Is it written 'flu' on their death certificates when comorbidities are present ?

[jonetsu]

These diseases are no longer widespread and some are completely eradicated because of the historical proven science of vaccination

Are mRNA products still vaccines ? If so, what are the basis to declare them in the same class of products ? The needle ?

[jonetsu]

Wondering why the state of emergency is maintained n many places ?

Remove the state of emergency and the products become illegal and can be challenged in court.

When you have products to sell ...


Pfizer/BioNTech pamphlet, first page, revision: Revised: 25 February 2021.

My emphasis for : "MAY PREVENT", "IT IS YOUR CHOICE" and "MAY NOT PROTECT EVERYONE"


"FACT SHEET FOR RECIPIENTS AND CAREGIVERS

EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZATION (EUA) OF THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE TO PREVENT CORONAVIRUS DISEASE 2019 (COVID-19) IN INDIVIDUALS 16 YEARS OF AGE AND OLDER

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is a vaccine and *MAY PREVENT* you from getting COVID-19. There is no U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19.

Read this Fact Sheet for information about the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. Talk to the vaccination provider if you have questions. *IT IS YOUR CHOICE to receive the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine* .

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is administered as a 2-dose series, 3 weeks apart, into the muscle.

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine *MAY NOT PROTECT EVERYONE* ."


Pages 5 and 6

"WHAT IS AN EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZATION (EUA)?

The United States FDA has made the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine available under an emergency access mechanism called an EUA. The EUA is supported by a Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) declaration that circumstances exist to justify the emergency use of drugs and biological products during the COVID-19 pandemic.

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine has not undergone the same type of review as an FDA-approved or cleared product. FDA may issue an EUA when certain criteria are met, which includes that there are no adequate, approved, available alternatives. In addition, the FDA decision is based on the totality of scientific evidence available showing that the product may be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19 pandemic and that the known and potential benefits of the product outweigh the known and potential risks of the product. All of these criteria must be met to allow for the product to be used in the treatment of patients during the COVID-19 pandemic. The EUA for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is in effect for the duration of the COVID-19 EUA declaration justifying emergency use of these products, unless terminated or revoked (after which the products may no longer be used)."

[jonetsu]

If all is super good, why was hydroxychloroquine reclassified as a venomous substance on January 13th 2020 after around 70 years of use ?

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/ ... 0041400024

[jonetsu]

I am a medical doctor by profession. I know many people who died from COVID-19.

The pandemic is not a scam.

The vaccine is a miracle. It is our way out of this mess.

What do you think of senator Scott Jensen, an ex-doctor, who went public about being told to put 'covid' on death certificates ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEMvtz5jDM8

And what do you think of the numbers in the VAERS (and EudraVigilance for Europeans) ?