No MIDI_IN for Linux from ROLAND FANTOM X - Help!

[Stamper]

I am trying to make the switch from Windows to Linux Mint 20. But I cannot get MIDI_IN to work for my Roland FANTOM X8.

My PC is currently dual boot between Win10 and Linux Mint 20, and everything works fine on Win10, but on Linux Mint 20, whilst USB Storage works fine and the FANTOM can receive MIDI, I cannot send MIDI from the FANTOM to the PC.

Not sure if this is a USB v1.10 issue (it should work), or something else, but if anyone has a working FANTOM X on Linux, please reach out.

Thanks

[Stamper]

Some extra info:

I also have a Roland GAIA SH-01 which works fine. I tried cross connecting the MIDI ins and outs between the SH-01 and the FANTOM X8 in 'qjackctl' connections, and the connection from the FANTOM shows 'red'.



So, ALSA knows something is wrong with the FANTOM. Is there a log file, or config file I can check??

[j_e_f_f_g]

Roland devices often have two USB modes. One is the USBMIDI standard. The other mode is a proprietary "enhanced" mode that supports extra features (ie more than 16 MIDI channels). There is a "USB mode" setting you can change (usually in the "System" menu). The proprietary roland driver for Windows supports Enhanced MIDI. The linux usbmidi driver does not. Therefore, for linux, you must turn off Enhanced MIDI mode on your Fantom.

Also, for devices that can be loaded with waveforms (like the X), there are two modes. One is the USBMIDI standard. The other mode is USB Storage mode. The latter means your computer sees your X like a usb hard drive. Do you see a drive icon on your desktop labeled something like "ROLAND"? That drive icon should appear and disappear when you connect/disconnect the X, just like it's a usb drive. You can open that ROLAND drive icon, "drag" WAV (or AIFF, but not mp3, flac, or ogg) files from your computer drive, and "drop" them into that ROLAND folder. Your computer will transfer those files to the X (so the X can play them). It's just like working with a usb thumb drive. So that's how you move waves to and from your X.

But when you want to use the X for MIDI, you have to disconnect it, and switch it to "MIDI USB mode" (not Storage mode). Now when you reconnect the X, linux will no longer see it as a usb drive. (ie No drive icon appears on your desktop). Instead, linux/alsa will see it as a MIDi device.

Your manual tells how to enable/disable storage and enhanced modes. After changing a mode, you do need to then disconnect/reconnect the X from your computer's usb. Maybe even turn the X on/off.

If you see a roland icon appear on your desktop, you're in the wrong mode.

[Stamper]

thanks for the reply.

The storage mode works fine. Switching between storage and midi is fully understood, I have been using the FANTOM X8 on windows for many years.

As you can see from the screen shot, the FANTOM receives midi, but sending is set to red, and no messages are received.

If the FANTOM X8 has a midi enhanced mode, I know not of it, nor how to turn if off and on. (Other than the USB storage mode, that is understood). Can you please elaborate?

[j_e_f_f_g]

Consult page 218 of your manual "Selecting MIDI Mode". Try saving the setting so the X8 powers up in this mode (instead of storage mode). Also, try changing the "MIDI Thru" setting. Perhaps it is on, and therefore alsa is detecting a potential "MIDI feedback loop", and thus compensating by disabling input.

[Stamper]

thanks for the suggestion, but the Fantom is already configured as you suggested anyway. USB mode is system write MIDI and MIDI Thru is OFF.

The fact that ALSA is reporting that MIDI in is not available (the red connection line in the screen shot) would mean that there is a config issue, or should be a log somewhere with an error reported (or that is what I hope). I just don't know where to look.

[merlyn]

The tab you're looking at called 'ALSA' is ALSA MIDI. There's also JACK MIDI under the tab called 'MIDI'. To debug this I would first check if MIDI from the Fantom is getting into the computer using jack_midi_dump. Type

Code: Select all

$ jack_midi_dump

into a terminal and you'll see a JACK client called 'midi-monitor' in the MIDI tab. Try connecting the Fantom to that, and you'll see if MIDI is being received in the terminal window where you ran jack_midi_dump.

[Stamper]

thanks for the suggestion @merlyn

The jack_midi_dump does show in the JACK MIDI, but connecting the 2 midi-captures both connect red, and there is nothing to show in the terminal window when playing the FANTOM's keyboard.

[merlyn]

There's a setting on the Fantom 'soft through'. Try turning that off.

Until you figure out what's wrong a workaround would be to use a 5 pin DIN MIDI cable. You could go out of the Fantom into your other keyboard, and connect your other keyboard via USB.

Something you could try is making a bootable USB of AV Linux and seeing if it works there.

http://www.bandshed.net/avlinux/

[j_e_f_f_g]

You don't have some "MIDI bridge software" installed, such as a2jmid, right? Because that will grab your midi ports away from ALSA.

[jkstudios]

This issue still persists.
I have found a 'workaround' but it may indeed be the most infuriating 'workaround' known to this day.

IF the Fantom is on and plugged in to USB before starting the DAW, there is about a 1 in 4 chance that midi will recieve from it.

upon failure, close DAW and restart fantom, rinse and repeat until it works.

Meanwhile try to keep that smile whilst the recording artist is sitting there waiting for you to get your gear working.
Utterly infuriating.

[bluebell]

If anything else fails then use a MIDI interface or an audio interface with MIDI and do it the old way with old-school MIDI cables.

With USB-MIDI I could not transfer DX7 sound banks to my Korg opsix. With old-school MIDI it worked like a charm.

[j_e_f_f_g]

With USB-MIDI I could not transfer DX7 sound banks to my Korg.

You weren't directly connecting them with one USB cable? USB needs a controller chip to manage the data transfer. Computers have USB controller chips in them to manage USB peripherals you attach to the computer. Because USB jacks on music instruments are meant to attach to a computer (and not directly to another music unit), the music devices don't have a controller chip. They're strictly a slave device. You can't directly attach 2 USB slave devices, and have them do any data transfer. There's no USB controller chip there.

You can get a USB hub that has a controller chip in it, to facilitate a direct connection. Some new, pricier music gear now have a USB controller chip so that you can directly attach to another music device's USB. A USB jack that has a controller chip with it is often referred to as a "USB Host port". All of a computer's USB jacks are Host ports.

[folderol]

If anything else fails then use a MIDI interface or an audio interface with MIDI and do it the old way with old-school MIDI cables.

With USB-MIDI I could not transfer DX7 sound banks to my Korg opsix. With old-school MIDI it worked like a charm.

This!
Single MIDI->USB adapters are pretty cheap and reliable. The more expensive 4 port ones are even better, and also have the benefit of being able to squeeze all four ports into the same time frame as one 'normal' MIDI input.

[bluebell]

With USB-MIDI I could not transfer DX7 sound banks to my Korg.

You weren't directly connecting them with one USB cable? USB needs a controller chip to manage the data transfer. Computers have USB controller chips in them to manage USB peripherals you attach to the computer. Because USB jacks on music instruments are meant to attach to a computer (and not directly to another music unit), the music devices don't have a controller chip. They're strictly a slave device. You can't directly attach 2 USB slave devices, and have them do any data transfer. There's no USB controller chip there.

You can get a USB hub that has a controller chip in it, to facilitate a direct connection. Some new, pricier music gear now have a USB controller chip so that you can directly attach to another music device's USB. A USB jack that has a controller chip with it is often referred to as a "USB Host port". All of a computer's USB jacks are Host ports.

The Korg opsix has both traditional MIDI and USB so – in principle – it can be directly connected (or via USB hub) to a Linux PC.

In my case I had to use a 5 meter USB-cable and that might be the problem. Note on/off were no problem but SysEx data made the opsix hang. I read about many stability problems with USB MIDI when the cables are longer than 1–2 meters.