MusE 3.1pre4

MusE is a MIDI/Audio sequencer with recording and editing capabilities, aiming to be a complete multitrack virtual studio for Linux. https://muse-sequencer.org/

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spamatica
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by spamatica »

funkmuscle wrote:Ok guys, I've completely cleaned out and reinstalled MusE from git.
I keep having to create a project many times using DrumGizmo before I can get sound.
I don't have that issue with Ardour, Qtractor or Reaper.
I can see the meter working when played but no sound. MusE is connected in Qjackctl.
This has been happening before the clean out. I cleaned out and reinstalled just in case it was I my end but it's not.
Older projects work or if I start fresh and create my own midi files it works but if I do import a file, this happens sometimes.
I apparently closed this ticket a while ago, could this be what you are experiencing?
https://github.com/muse-sequencer/muse/issues/623

I'm not too familiar with drumgizmo. Is there a volume control somewhere that gets set to zero? (That muse somehow causes to be zero that is)

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funkmuscle
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by funkmuscle »

spamatica wrote:
funkmuscle wrote:Ok guys, I've completely cleaned out and reinstalled MusE from git.
I keep having to create a project many times using DrumGizmo before I can get sound.
I don't have that issue with Ardour, Qtractor or Reaper.
I can see the meter working when played but no sound. MusE is connected in Qjackctl.
This has been happening before the clean out. I cleaned out and reinstalled just in case it was I my end but it's not.
Older projects work or if I start fresh and create my own midi files it works but if I do import a file, this happens sometimes.
I apparently closed this ticket a while ago, could this be what you are experiencing?
https://github.com/muse-sequencer/muse/issues/623

I'm not too familiar with drumgizmo. Is there a volume control somewhere that gets set to zero? (That muse somehow causes to be zero that is)
Not exactly but I'll do some more troubleshooting when I have time and send you feedback. Is there a debugging option so I can gather the info to send?

spamatica
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by spamatica »

I did some investigation and with the song file supplied with the mentioned ticket I get the issue that the first two outputs of drumgizmo are completely silent. The problem is exactly what Tim mentions, the synths volume is at zero. (this strip was manually hidden in the mixer so it was not immediately apparent).
It does not seem reasonable that this is the issue you are having. And drumgizmo gives sound here...

There is no relation but I know I've had problems with another drum plugin in the past, possibly Black Pearl Drumkit. It worked sometimes.. Reloading the song with the plugin eventually got it to make sound.
There is no relation with this plugin but maybe there is a timing issue here so it only starts up correctly sometimes? Could you try it?
Not a real solution but it gives us more to go on where the problem lies.

spamatica
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by spamatica »

Read the ticket again.
funkmuscle wrote:I can see the meter working when played but no sound. MusE is connected in Qjackctl.
Which meter is it that is moving?
The midi drumtracks meter should definitely be moving.
Next up is the synths meter. This moves if there is sound on the first two outputs. If this moves, MusE is receiving sound, and it should absolutely be possible to get it correctly set up.

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funkmuscle
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by funkmuscle »

spamatica wrote:I did some investigation and with the song file supplied with the mentioned ticket I get the issue that the first two outputs of drumgizmo are completely silent. The problem is exactly what Tim mentions, the synths volume is at zero. (this strip was manually hidden in the mixer so it was not immediately apparent).
It does not seem reasonable that this is the issue you are having. And drumgizmo gives sound here...

There is no relation but I know I've had problems with another drum plugin in the past, possibly Black Pearl Drumkit. It worked sometimes.. Reloading the song with the plugin eventually got it to make sound.
There is no relation with this plugin but maybe there is a timing issue here so it only starts up correctly sometimes? Could you try it?
Not a real solution but it gives us more to go on where the problem lies.
yep..... Black Pearl does that too sometimes..
Reloading does help sometimes and like today, it didn't. had to create another fresh project and that worked.

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funkmuscle
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by funkmuscle »

spamatica wrote:Read the ticket again.
funkmuscle wrote:I can see the meter working when played but no sound. MusE is connected in Qjackctl.
Which meter is it that is moving?
The midi drumtracks meter should definitely be moving.
Next up is the synths meter. This moves if there is sound on the first two outputs. If this moves, MusE is receiving sound, and it should absolutely be possible to get it correctly set up.
meter on both track and synth..
it's connected to jack.. sometimes I'd load up a new project and MusE will not show in qjackctl.. That's the other issue

spamatica
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by spamatica »

Okay so the synths meter is moving, either we got a nasty bug or this should be possible to resolve.

I set up a similar configuration to what you have, although I started jack on the commandline with: jackd -R -dalsa -d hw:0 -r 44100 -p 512

Here's a screenshot over the tracks I created
tracks.png
Basically it's: drumtrack->drumgizmo->Out->jack

Clicking on the output arrow on the drumgizmo strip yields the following menu showing a checkbox on Out 1. This signals that drumgizmos default out are connected to Out 1.
drumgizmo_out.png
Hovering the mouse over the Out 1 will display the extension menu where it is possible to individually connect all outputs. For this test it should suffice with the checkbox on Out 1 but for testing do try and connect others.
drumgizmo_out2.png

And lastly, clicking on the output arrow on the Out 1 track shows the following menu which means that muse has wired it's output to the two alsa ports (the default ports).
muse_out.png
Does this resemble what you have set up?

Also, you mentioned QJackctl and MusE missing there... not sure why that might be.
Ah, yeah, I guess it could be that MusE failed to connect to jack on startup and instead connected with rtaudio (or no audio at all)
If you are using the recent prereleases this can be checked in the about box, it lists what driver is currently running
about.png
Lastly, about qjackctl, MusE does not like if routes are setup from inside qjackctl, it wants to handle all such things by itself, so if you are making routes in qjackctl, make them from within MusE instead.
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Tim E. Real
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by Tim E. Real »

Hi. Just enough time for a very quick rebuttal:
MusE should have no trouble using QJackCtl or similar for making connections. Great care was taken to ensure that.
You can use either one to make your connections.
If anyone has observed trouble with using QJackCtl, please let me know. Should not be so.

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funkmuscle
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by funkmuscle »

Tim E. Real wrote:Hi. Just enough time for a very quick rebuttal:
MusE should have no trouble using QJackCtl or similar for making connections. Great care was taken to ensure that.
You can use either one to make your connections.
If anyone has observed trouble with using QJackCtl, please let me know. Should not be so.
Yes but the odd time that happens.
And still the output and connections omni thing is quite confusing.

Tim E. Real
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by Tim E. Real »

A brief explanation of Omni:
Omni has no bearing regarding Jack routes. Omni only applies to our own track-to-track routes.
That's one reason why I say QJackCtl should have no trouble with MusE.

Omni is a convenient way of quickly connecting MusE tracks together 'wholesale' without having to connect the individual channels one by one.
By using Omni to connect tracks, Omni automatically connects all available output channels from one track to all of the first
available corresponding inputs of another track.

Thus if Track1 has four outputs and you Omni connect to another Track2 which has say two available inputs,
MusE will automatically connect the first two outputs of Track1 to those two inputs of Track2.
If Track1 has two outputs and Track2 has four available inputs, MusE will connect those two Track1 outputs to the first two inputs of Track2.

Similarly, with Midi tracks, you can tell a Mid track to receive all channels from a Midi source (MusE port / device), instead of
having to choose the desired channels one by one. In this Midi usage, Omni should be familiar to anyone with a hardware Midi synth keyboard.

You are free to connect individual channels if desired, which can be useful for example when connecting two different mono sources
to one stereo track. But for most day-to-day usage, Omni is just fine.
In fact, before these individual channel connections were added, Omni was the only available type of connection. It was not called 'Omni'
back then but yeah, that's how we connected tracks together - there was no individual channel connections.

HTH.

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funkmuscle
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by funkmuscle »

spamatica wrote:Okay so the synths meter is moving, either we got a nasty bug or this should be possible to resolve.

I set up a similar configuration to what you have, although I started jack on the commandline with: jackd -R -dalsa -d hw:0 -r 44100 -p 512

Here's a screenshot over the tracks I created
tracks.png
Basically it's: drumtrack->drumgizmo->Out->jack

Clicking on the output arrow on the drumgizmo strip yields the following menu showing a checkbox on Out 1. This signals that drumgizmos default out are connected to Out 1.
drumgizmo_out.png
Hovering the mouse over the Out 1 will display the extension menu where it is possible to individually connect all outputs. For this test it should suffice with the checkbox on Out 1 but for testing do try and connect others.
drumgizmo_out2.png

And lastly, clicking on the output arrow on the Out 1 track shows the following menu which means that muse has wired it's output to the two alsa ports (the default ports).
muse_out.png
Does this resemble what you have set up?

Also, you mentioned QJackctl and MusE missing there... not sure why that might be.
Ah, yeah, I guess it could be that MusE failed to connect to jack on startup and instead connected with rtaudio (or no audio at all)
If you are using the recent prereleases this can be checked in the about box, it lists what driver is currently running
about.png
Lastly, about qjackctl, MusE does not like if routes are setup from inside qjackctl, it wants to handle all such things by itself, so if you are making routes in qjackctl, make them from within MusE instead.
yep this one is now solved with the no sound. the checkmark was not there for DrumGizmo on the output. thanks now I can fix other projects and delete duplicates that I had to create.

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funkmuscle
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by funkmuscle »

Tim E. Real wrote:A brief explanation of Omni:
Omni has no bearing regarding Jack routes. Omni only applies to our own track-to-track routes.
That's one reason why I say QJackCtl should have no trouble with MusE.

Omni is a convenient way of quickly connecting MusE tracks together 'wholesale' without having to connect the individual channels one by one.
By using Omni to connect tracks, Omni automatically connects all available output channels from one track to all of the first
available corresponding inputs of another track.

Thus if Track1 has four outputs and you Omni connect to another Track2 which has say two available inputs,
MusE will automatically connect the first two outputs of Track1 to those two inputs of Track2.
If Track1 has two outputs and Track2 has four available inputs, MusE will connect those two Track1 outputs to the first two inputs of Track2.

Similarly, with Midi tracks, you can tell a Mid track to receive all channels from a Midi source (MusE port / device), instead of
having to choose the desired channels one by one. In this Midi usage, Omni should be familiar to anyone with a hardware Midi synth keyboard.

You are free to connect individual channels if desired, which can be useful for example when connecting two different mono sources
to one stereo track. But for most day-to-day usage, Omni is just fine.
In fact, before these individual channel connections were added, Omni was the only available type of connection. It was not called 'Omni'
back then but yeah, that's how we connected tracks together - there was no individual channel connections.

HTH.
I'm gonna have to sit and study this.

Tim E. Real
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by Tim E. Real »

Further insight into Omni: There is some magic that happens with Omni in two special cases:

In the case of Omni connecting a mono audio track to another track having two or more channels (ie. a stereo track):
MusE will automatically split (copy) that mono signal to both of the first two channels of the other track.
Because, it was the right thing to do.

Similarly, in the case of Omni connecting an audio track having two or more channels (ie. a stereo track) to another mono audio track:
MusE will automatically mix the first two channels of the source track to form the mono signal to the other mono track.

Again, day-to-day most users might never need to visit the 'channel' popup sub-menus in the routing popup menus.
I had hoped it would be obvious from the fact the none of the 'channel' route lights are ever lit by default and instead the Omni button is on,
that this is what Omni does - it 'just works' automatically connecting your tracks.
For more fine-grained control users can go to the 'channels' routes and use them.

Small caveat: Please be aware folks, that Omni AND channel routing buttons can be lit at the same time,
and the resulting signal will be a mixture of both Omni sound and 'channels' sound.
So remember to turn off Omni when using channels :!:

Yeah, I know, I really must make them exclusive but there were conceptual problems at the time. (Lord knows, someone
might actually want the mixture, etc. etc.)

On the Midi side of things, if I recall correctly, I was able to make the Omni button take priority over the 'channels' routes
(an obvious one, it simply accepts all channels regardless of any clicked channels).
No harm when both are on, no 'double notes' or such.

spamatica
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by spamatica »

Great that you got it figured funcmuscle.
And thanks for correcting me regarding external routing, Tim, so no worries with conecting in qjackctl.

About Omni, would the following list be right Tim?
mono -> mono (the same)
stereo -> stereo (the same)
mono -> stereo (the sound is sent to both left and right)
stereo -> mono (mix the channels)
multi - > mono (it takes the first channel?)
multi -> stereo (it takes the two first channels)

I should make a video about this.

Tim E. Real
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Re: MusE 3.1pre4

Post by Tim E. Real »

Yes I think that is correct.
The Omni behaviour is essentially the same as old MusE before channels routes were added.
Remember the single connection button way back?

At this point it could be asked what good is multi-channel support if most track types are not multi-channel?
True, only one track type supports multi-channel at the moment - synth tracks.
Although it is highly unlikely one would feed multi-channel outputs from a synth into another multi-channel input synth,
nonetheless the support is there and Omni will feed all those channels at once into the other synth.

Thus if and when we do add true multi-channel support to all tracks, at least our Omni will be ready.

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