E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Talk about your MIDI interfaces, microphones, keyboards...

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Linuxmusician01
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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby Linuxmusician01 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:14 pm

Red Leader wrote:[...]I have good news! I took your advice and threw Ubuntu 18.04 on a USB boot drive and it is up and running on the comp! Both wired and wireless internet working! It was seamless.

That's how a modern Linux distro should work. :)

Red Leader wrote:I did a system update, installed KXstudio repos, update again, and installed 'KXstudio default settings' package.

I'm not sure what is in that package, or what it does. Honestly I'm not noticing a lot of change (i.e. no programs like Ardour or JACK controls actually installed).

I don't know what that package does either. I'm not noticing any change when I use KXStudio's software either and that's the whole point! One simply uses the software that is in the repo's as if you have no idea what KXStudio is. Just like in Windows of MocOS you do not want your computer to "change" just because you use a DAW every now and then! I think hat you expected your PC to look different and more like a music studio after activating KXStudio? That's not what Linux, Windows, KXStudio and DAW's are about.They are like word processors: you start the software when you need it and stop it if you want to use your computer for e-mailing and internetting.

Red Leader wrote:Now here is the interesting thing. In some of the literature, it sounds like you can layer KXstudio on top of Ubuntu. Here is the reference:

http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/Document ... ry:Upgrade
[...]
However, I really like the clean look of Ubuntu and just about every experience I've had with KDE has been awful. Do you see any reason that I couldn't skip the desktop install and just go for the applications?

I really do not see any reason to do that either. Just like users of Windows and MacOS just go for software! You're pretty much dome w/ setting up your computer now if you ask me. The only thing left is to determine what you want to do w/ music production in Linux and to install & use the software that you need for that.

You might try one last time to get that E-mu 0404 pci sound card to play nicely or, until you have a better audio device, use an on-board sound card to record some audio with Adacity for practice. I found this post in a Linux Mint forum in which somebody wrote how he got his Emu card working (Mint is based on Ubuntu so it might work for you too). Here's how he solved it:

"Here's the cure for all EMU cards whether internal or usb/external.

Code: Select all

cd ~
wget ftp://ftp.alsa-project.org/pub/firmware/alsa-firmware-1.0.28.tar.bz2
tar xjf alsa-firmware-1.0.28.tar.bz2
cd alsa-firmware-1.0.28
./configure --enable-buildfw
cd emu/
make
sudo make install

It works like a charm. I can record, have all the effects, synths, midi, everything works like it does in every other OS I have."


What do you want to do w/ music in Linux? Use virtual instruments like VST's? Record your singing voice? Record guitar? Record a synth? Make house music via Midi and drum computers? What software to use depends on that.

merlyn
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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby merlyn » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:09 pm

@Red Leader Do you still have the M audio 2496? That would work using the s/pdif as an input and the analogue output. A PCI card is preferable to USB.

Red Leader
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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby Red Leader » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:35 am

Linuxmusician01 wrote:
Red Leader wrote:[...]I have good news! I took your advice and threw Ubuntu 18.04 on a USB boot drive and it is up and running on the comp! Both wired and wireless internet working! It was seamless.

That's how a modern Linux distro should work. :)

Red Leader wrote:I did a system update, installed KXstudio repos, update again, and installed 'KXstudio default settings' package.

I'm not sure what is in that package, or what it does. Honestly I'm not noticing a lot of change (i.e. no programs like Ardour or JACK controls actually installed).

I don't know what that package does either. I'm not noticing any change when I use KXStudio's software either and that's the whole point! One simply uses the software that is in the repo's as if you have no idea what KXStudio is. Just like in Windows of MocOS you do not want your computer to "change" just because you use a DAW every now and then! I think hat you expected your PC to look different and more like a music studio after activating KXStudio? That's not what Linux, Windows, KXStudio and DAW's are about.They are like word processors: you start the software when you need it and stop it if you want to use your computer for e-mailing and internetting.

Red Leader wrote:Now here is the interesting thing. In some of the literature, it sounds like you can layer KXstudio on top of Ubuntu. Here is the reference:

http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/Document ... ry:Upgrade
[...]
However, I really like the clean look of Ubuntu and just about every experience I've had with KDE has been awful. Do you see any reason that I couldn't skip the desktop install and just go for the applications?

I really do not see any reason to do that either. Just like users of Windows and MacOS just go for software! You're pretty much dome w/ setting up your computer now if you ask me. The only thing left is to determine what you want to do w/ music production in Linux and to install & use the software that you need for that.

You might try one last time to get that E-mu 0404 pci sound card to play nicely or, until you have a better audio device, use an on-board sound card to record some audio with Adacity for practice. I found this post in a Linux Mint forum in which somebody wrote how he got his Emu card working (Mint is based on Ubuntu so it might work for you too). Here's how he solved it:

"Here's the cure for all EMU cards whether internal or usb/external.

Code: Select all

cd ~
wget ftp://ftp.alsa-project.org/pub/firmware/alsa-firmware-1.0.28.tar.bz2
tar xjf alsa-firmware-1.0.28.tar.bz2
cd alsa-firmware-1.0.28
./configure --enable-buildfw
cd emu/
make
sudo make install

It works like a charm. I can record, have all the effects, synths, midi, everything works like it does in every other OS I have."


What do you want to do w/ music in Linux? Use virtual instruments like VST's? Record your singing voice? Record guitar? Record a synth? Make house music via Midi and drum computers? What software to use depends on that.



Everything you said makes sense and I agree with it all!

Regarding the packages, I really just have one question left - what is essential? Meaning, on my old system, I'm used to firing it up, then opening the jack utility, starting jack, then opening Ardour and going from there. So, I'm wondering...if there is a jack/ALSA utility that I'll need in addition to any other software or utilities? When I did a seach for 'jack' and 'ALSA' after I added the repos, I actually didn't see anything super specific that looked like the jack audio engine utility. I might just go with the 'audio' package of KXstudio, which I would think would have to include those utilities.

You know what, throwing in the E-mu 0404 isn't a bad idea! I'll try that next. I also really appreciate the link to someone who got theirs to work. This is going to start getting experimental!

Red Leader
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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby Red Leader » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:37 am

merlyn wrote:@Red Leader Do you still have the M audio 2496? That would work using the s/pdif as an input and the analogue output. A PCI card is preferable to USB.


Unfortunately I do not, but I think those cards can be found super cheap, so if the E-mu is a dead-end, that may be my next route. I agree, I like the idea of a built in PCI card. I'd like to set up my studio with a signal chain as close to a professional studio as possible, but right now I don't have the budget for a $1200 soundcard :mrgreen:

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Linuxmusician01
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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby Linuxmusician01 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:57 pm

Red Leader wrote:[..]So, I'm wondering...if there is a jack/ALSA utility that I'll need in addition to any other software or utilities?

No. :)

BTW Good luck w/ the procedure to get the E-mu working. I'm very interested to know if you got it working. I'm having a look at this PCI card and I kinda like it. Do you still have both break-out cables? Only downside of this and many (internal) PCI(e) cards is that the analog jack-inputs are not balanced so you might experience hum from a ground loop. If one uses a laptop on batteries and an external USB audio device then you don't have that of course. I experience a lot of noise from a ground loop if I use my laptop on a power adapter for recording.

merlyn
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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby merlyn » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:03 pm

Red Leader wrote: When I did a seach for 'jack' and 'ALSA' after I added the repos, I actually didn't see anything super specific that looked like the jack audio engine utility.

If you've been using AV Linux then I think you're referring to QJackctl, which is the GUI for JACK that comes with AV. In the KX repos there is Cadence, which does the same thing as QJackctl -- configuring JACK and allowing connections to be made between JACK clients.

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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby glowrak guy » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:15 pm

https://wiki.debian.org/snd-emu10k1

You'll likely need the above kernel module,
as well as the firmware mentioned earlier
in the discussion. This could get your
basic i/o working at 44100 or 48000.
The convertors on the card are high quality.

If not, set up a cheap recycled win7 rompler box for stuff
that won't run on linux, but is still desirable, line out
from 0404 to line-in on linux card. Native Instruments usb interface
should work with high quality.
Good luck!

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Linuxmusician01
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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby Linuxmusician01 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:44 pm

glowrak guy wrote:https://wiki.debian.org/snd-emu10k1

You'll likely need the above kernel module,
as well as the firmware mentioned earlier
in the discussion. This could get your
basic i/o working at 44100 or 48000.
The convertors on the card are high quality.

If not, set up a cheap recycled win7 rompler box for stuff
that won't run on linux, but is still desirable, line out
from 0404 to line-in on linux card. Native Instruments usb interface
should work with high quality.
Good luck!

Interesting. The link you provided says that the Sound Blaster Live audio card (which is based on the emu10k1 chip like you mentioned) is based on the same chip as the Emu 0404 that we are talking about here. AFAIK the Sound Blaster Live (that is: the 10k1 chip set) is very well supported in Linux. So chances are very slim that the mentioned problems arise from not having the right kernel module (read: driver) for it.

From your link I learn that the Sound Blaster Live does not need any proprietary firmware. The Emu cards, however, do. The procedure to get this firmware into the Emu 0404 is described in some more detail than by the procedure that I mentioned. :)

@Red Leader: have you tried yet to get the Emu 0404 card working? I hope so.

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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby Red Leader » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:21 am

merlyn wrote:
Red Leader wrote: When I did a seach for 'jack' and 'ALSA' after I added the repos, I actually didn't see anything super specific that looked like the jack audio engine utility.

If you've been using AV Linux then I think you're referring to QJackctl, which is the GUI for JACK that comes with AV. In the KX repos there is Cadence, which does the same thing as QJackctl -- configuring JACK and allowing connections to be made between JACK clients.



Thank you, this was SUPER helpful. Yes, I was familiar with QJackctl, so looking for that and not finding it (knowing that I needed to get jack/alsa running), led to some confusion. I'll make sure that Cadence is a part of what I grab as far as packages and utilities.

Red Leader
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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby Red Leader » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:23 am

Linuxmusician01 wrote:
glowrak guy wrote:https://wiki.debian.org/snd-emu10k1

You'll likely need the above kernel module,
as well as the firmware mentioned earlier
in the discussion. This could get your
basic i/o working at 44100 or 48000.
The convertors on the card are high quality.

If not, set up a cheap recycled win7 rompler box for stuff
that won't run on linux, but is still desirable, line out
from 0404 to line-in on linux card. Native Instruments usb interface
should work with high quality.
Good luck!

Interesting. The link you provided says that the Sound Blaster Live audio card (which is based on the emu10k1 chip like you mentioned) is based on the same chip as the Emu 0404 that we are talking about here. AFAIK the Sound Blaster Live (that is: the 10k1 chip set) is very well supported in Linux. So chances are very slim that the mentioned problems arise from not having the right kernel module (read: driver) for it.

From your link I learn that the Sound Blaster Live does not need any proprietary firmware. The Emu cards, however, do. The procedure to get this firmware into the Emu 0404 is described in some more detail than by the procedure that I mentioned. :)

@Red Leader: have you tried yet to get the Emu 0404 card working? I hope so.



Not yet, but I plan to tomorrow. With all the help that you and the others have provided, I won't you hanging! I'll have some time to tear into it and see what I can do.

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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby asbak » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:33 pm

I paid $25 for an old 0404 PCI and used it in Linux. Huge bargain and it sounds and works great. One can even load soundfonts into its limited memory. To get it working RTFM meaning the alsa docs, it's not rocket science. The alsa-firmware is needed and the snd-emu10k1 modules need to be loaded.

Heck, it was much harder getting it to work in Windows 7 (where I'm currently using it) than it was under Linux. Soundblaster stopped supporting it years ago and it requires very specific beta driver & software versions (which are near impossible to find) to get it working on Win7.

glowrak guy
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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby glowrak guy » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:47 pm

driver page for 0404 pci

https://support.creative.com/downloads/ ... oadId=9068

Much of the driver may be related to the E-mu Patchmix patchbay gui,
and possibly not needed for linux.

Cheers

glowrak guy
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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby glowrak guy » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:18 am


Red Leader
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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby Red Leader » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:45 pm

I didn't get a chance to tear into it on Monday, the work week has been a little crazy and have some other irons in the fire (like children... :D ) but I'm off on Friday so if I don't get the chance tonight/tomorrow, I'll definitely be able to grab a coffee, sit down for a chunk of time, and have at it.

I appreciate the further comments about the E-mu 0404. Maybe not as hopeless as I would have thought!
Last edited by Red Leader on Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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GMaq
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Re: E-mu 0404 and getting nowhere...

Postby GMaq » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:47 am

@Linuxmusician01

AV Linux is a 'modern distribution' it's based on Debian Stable, has a custom RT Kernel, numerous other tweaks and customizations and comes with the KXStudio repos as well as a significant amount of other Audio and Video software not contained in KXStudio pre-installed as well as a 129 page illustrated User Manual. It has also been around since 2007 which is probably a longer run than any other Audio distro including KXStudio. It's not perfect and it doesn't always work for everyone but it has worked well for many over the years and is a tremendous amount of work for one person so I'd appreciate it if you didn't so glibly dismiss it out of hand.

@Red Leader

In the future if you have AV Linux problems try the AV Linux forum, or PM me here. I'm not sure why the Emu wasn't working, it is a bit of a rare bird but it did work in previous AVL versions.


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