[SOLVED] LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

What other apps and distros do you use to round out your studio?

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jonetsu
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[SOLVED] LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby jonetsu » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:21 pm

Since the Linux Mint team is tossing away KDE from their distro and since I just lost the 3-bar menu in firefox in LM 18.3 KDE (common problem from the google results) after installing wine-staging (probably, not sure, only other application that was installed was Mixbus32C), and since I'm just at the beginning of configuring this new 18.3 system, it might be worthwhile to go in another direction.

I'd like to stay with an Ubuntu-based distro that's quite stable. And that was my experience up to LM 18 that I'm still usign and works fine for everything. So there's time to look around, no rush. I still find it appalling though that in 2019 a problem such as a menu not working any more can be experienced. And 2018 for other people who have experienced the same. I tried some solutions, they do not work so far and I'm not sure I want to continue in that direction eg. searching and fixing such things.

So, anyone using Cinnamon, MATE or Xfce ? How does it fare with Ardour and plugins ? Are you running also Windows VST using wine-staging and linvst ? Are you running Bitwig ?

UPDATE

I found a workaround which consists of disabling something called the Compositor in System Settings -> Display and Monitor. The 'side effect' of this is that now the KDE desktop is fast and snappy. Although so far some native Linux plugins in Bitwig are crashing when attempting to show their UI, the ones from u-he and DiscoDSP. pianoteq, Waverazor, Loomer do work.

It's a mess. Hard to accept that such a situation can be happening in 2019. Same line as LM 18 which works very fine... just a few steps later 18.3 is a mess on many accounts.

Anyways, if you do have experience with other desktops, feel free to share your experiences as it can be useful for anyone.

Cheers.
Last edited by jonetsu on Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sysrqer
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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby sysrqer » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:47 pm

What menu problem? I use KDE without any issue. I don't really understand what you are asking, why would a DE affect linvst or ardour or bitwig?

What graphics card do you have and which drivers are you using?

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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby tavasti » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:22 pm

I have for long (over 10 years) used xfce. Earlier had fvwm as window manager, but on changed it to Awesome. Sure, that is not system for somebody who wants system that looks and behaves same way as MS Windows. Actually, I want window manager which is highly configurable, and has possibilities to do things which are not possible in mainstream wm's.

https://awesomewm.org/
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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby milo » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:08 pm

tavasti wrote:I have for long (over 10 years) used xfce. Earlier had fvwm as window manager, but on changed it to Awesome. Sure, that is not system for somebody who wants system that looks and behaves same way as MS Windows. Actually, I want window manager which is highly configurable, and has possibilities to do things which are not possible in mainstream wm's.

https://awesomewm.org/


I agree. XFCE is my favorite by far. It is the lightest weight full service desktop, and can be configured to be quite efficient. (Turning off the compositor goes a long way.)

My favorite feature, as explained above, is its remarkable customizability. I love how you can put as many panels in as many places as you want. I have a "system tray" panel in the bottom right with a clock, notifications, and a desktop pager. Then on the left side of the screen I have an auto hide panel with application launchers. And you can use the mouse wheel on the desktop to toggle between desktops. I use the right click applications menu and don't bother keeping a menu in any panel. I can't get that combination in any other DE.

And all my audio software runs great on XFCE. Never tried recording on any other DE.

I've used many distros over the years ... Caldera, Red Hat, VectorLinux, Debian, Ubuntu, Xubuntu, and now Linux Mint for about 6-7 years ... But I always prefer XFCE no matter what DE the distro ships with.

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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby jonetsu » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:39 pm

sysrqer wrote:What menu problem? I use KDE without any issue. I don't really understand what you are asking, why would a DE affect linvst or ardour or bitwig? What graphics card do you have and which drivers are you using?


See what I mean ? With all due respect I have stated that LM 18 works absolutely fine. As well as LM 17 for that matter. And all previous.

I haven't checked any video drivers since Fedora 8. Just install a distro, and it works. I will not start today, and especially with the flurry of people complaining they suddenly lost their 3-bar (eg. 'hamburger') firefox menu. I do not find this acceptable. Not because I care so much about firefox (although I do insist on running No Script) but because this has to do with something very basic.

There are two types of installation/customizations. The sane type is about spending time configuring the audio and audio applications for an optimal run. The crooked one is spending time facing basic problems that crept in into a distro for any reason.
Last edited by jonetsu on Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby jonetsu » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:45 pm

tavasti wrote:I have for long (over 10 years) used xfce. Earlier had fvwm as window manager, but on changed it to Awesome. Sure, that is not system for somebody who wants system that looks and behaves same way as MS Windows. Actually, I want window manager which is highly configurable, and has possibilities to do things which are not possible in mainstream wm's.

https://awesomewm.org/


Thanks for the feedback. I'm used to work on terminals only, either with embedded products or by using mostly a flurry of terminals on a desktop connected to various machines. For sometime now I'm questioning why I would stick to KDE. I guess it's an habit of sorts. I gather that Xfce is very much on the lightweight side. I would prefer for home use a desktop that's part of a distro offering stable releases.

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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby jonetsu » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:47 pm

milo wrote: And all my audio software runs great on XFCE. Never tried recording on any other DE. I've used many distros over the years ... Caldera, Red Hat, VectorLinux, Debian, Ubuntu, Xubuntu, and now Linux Mint for about 6-7 years ... But I always prefer XFCE no matter what DE the distro ships with.


That's a good testimony !

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sysrqer
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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby sysrqer » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:49 pm

jonetsu wrote:
sysrqer wrote:What menu problem? I use KDE without any issue. I don't really understand what you are asking, why would a DE affect linvst or ardour or bitwig? What graphics card do you have and which drivers are you using?


See what I mean ? With all due respect I have stated that LM 18 works absolutely fine. As well as LM 17 for that matter. And all previous.

I haven't checked any video drivers since Fedora 8. Just install a distro, and it works.


No, I don't see what you mean. I have no idea what your issue is.

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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby sysrqer » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:51 pm

jonetsu wrote:
milo wrote: And all my audio software runs great on XFCE. Never tried recording on any other DE. I've used many distros over the years ... Caldera, Red Hat, VectorLinux, Debian, Ubuntu, Xubuntu, and now Linux Mint for about 6-7 years ... But I always prefer XFCE no matter what DE the distro ships with.


That's a good testimony !

I can say the same for KDE 5. I think it's highly unlikely that whatever your problem is that it is caused by the DE.

jonetsu
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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby jonetsu » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:59 pm

sysrqer wrote:I can say the same for KDE 5. I think it's highly unlikely that whatever your problem is that it is caused by the DE.


I find some emptiness in your statement. I can say exactly the same. Better, I can show it, and I can say I have done approx. 240 musical sketches with that system so far:

LM18.1.kde.jpg
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sysrqer
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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby sysrqer » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:03 pm

jonetsu wrote:I find some emptiness in your statement. I can say exactly the same. Better, I can show it, and I can say I have done approx. 240 musical sketches with that system so far:

So what is the problem?

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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby jonetsu » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:05 pm

sysrqer wrote:No, I don't see what you mean. I have no idea what your issue is.


I re-read what I wrote. I still find it's rather well-explained. One thing though - and hopefully that did not provoke any terrible confusion - is that when I wrote 'LM 18' I meant 'LM 18.1'. The rest is OK. 'LM 18.3' is indeed 'LM 18.3'.

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sysrqer
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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby sysrqer » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:21 pm

jonetsu wrote:
sysrqer wrote:No, I don't see what you mean. I have no idea what your issue is.


I re-read what I wrote. I still find it's rather well-explained. One thing though - and hopefully that did not provoke any terrible confusion - is that when I wrote 'LM 18' I meant 'LM 18.1'. The rest is OK. 'LM 18.3' is indeed 'LM 18.3'.

But you haven't actually explained what the problem is.
Since the Linux Mint team is tossing away KDE from their distro and since I just lost the 3-bar menu in firefox in LM 18.3 KDE after installing wine-staging


This is extremely vague, as are the other comments about things crashing and disabling compositor. As far as I can tell, Mint broke something with an update, quite what is impossible to ascertain, and you have decided to change distro. What I don't understand is what your actual problem is and why you think another DE would change that. If something changed for the better when you altered compositor settings then it points to a graphics issue which most likely can be fixed quite easily.

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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby jonetsu » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:54 pm

sysrqer wrote:But you haven't actually explained what the problem is.


Very first sentence of the post. I only mentioned the 3-bar menu, but it also affects the extension icons to the left of it. They worked yesterday, today they don't. In-between: installation of wine-staging from winehq, and installation of Mixbus32C.


sysrqer wrote:This is extremely vague, as are the other comments about things crashing and disabling compositor.


The full path to the disabling of the Compositor was given. Granted, I haven't said where I found it. I found it at Linux Mint in their forum, in a very detailed thread about that problem.

sysrqer wrote:As far as I can tell, Mint broke something with an update, quite what is impossible to ascertain, and you have decided to change distro.


There was no update performed in/between the two states of the 3-bar menu in firefox. Only the two packages aforementioned were installed.

sysrqer wrote:What I don't understand is what your actual problem is and why you think another DE would change that. If something changed for the better when you altered compositor settings then it points to a graphics issue which most likely can be fixed quite easily.


Many, many users and and people who responded to them in both the LM forum and firefox support did not find that easy at all. Many did not get any solutions, and I've tried some that did not work.

This said, LM is throwing away KDE. Why should I stick to it in the long run ? I could change the distro, true, although I've been using LM for years - and still usign 18.1 - so my hope is that with another DE they will surface back to a higher standard of quality so to say. Maybe it'll simplify their QA testing for one.

As I've said, since Fedora 8 I haven't checked what the graphic are in the mobo. Because I never had to. And now, firefox menus cannot be shown overnight, some native Linux plugins are crashing when trying to show their UI, not to mention the low-latency kernel install and the burying of its grub entry (never happened before, had to fish it out) - not KDE related I know.

They might had problems with 18.3, don't know. I now have LM 19.1 Xfce and will installed it over 18.3.

I can spend a lot of time in building a Linux system from the ground up, as I'm doing now as I go back to what I used to do years ago. Although I always have drawn a line when it comes to making music: 1) The distro must be stable and not entail any troubleshooting to make it work properly and 2) all configuration time is initially spent for configuring and optimization the audio subsystem and applications.

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Re: LM: alternatives to KDE - any good ?

Postby lilith » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:05 pm

Why not Debian stable + xfce?
https://soundcloud.com/lilith_93

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