Rainmaker (album)

Show off original scores and recordings made with Linux!

Moderators: MattKingUSA, khz

User avatar
Rainmak3r
Established Member
Posts: 888
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:24 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 180 times
Contact:

Rainmaker (album)

Post by Rainmak3r »

Hi all,

a few months after Delusion's Master, I'm excited to announce my second "serious" album:

https://lminiero.bandcamp.com/album/rainmaker

The one above is the Bandcamp link, even though it should become available on other streaming services (Spotify & co.) soon as well. The Bandcamp link is the only one where you can also hear a bonus track called "The Beach", though: at the moment it's only available to those who purchase the whole album (a pathetic attempt at increasing sales :mrgreen: ), but in the future I may post it somewhere else for free too, as it would a pity to leave it "unheard". It's not in the album as it came to me later, in a dream, and I had already finalized the tracklist.

Edit: this DistroKid link now also points to Spotify and Apple Music, https://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/loren ... /rainmaker

As you can guess from my nickname, the album title does mean something to me, as it's the title of one of my favourite songs ever, by Kansas, and so this album is a homage and tribute to that. The title track, in particular, is an unofficial sequel to the story that Kansas song told (fanfiction, if you will!). More in general, though, rain itself is the common theme to all tracks, tying them from beginning to end: it starts with rain, and ends with rain.

Unlike the previous album, this was all written and recorded in the past few months after DM was released. As such, you may expect this to mean the album will sound more "consistent", and I'm afraid you'd be mistaken! :mrgreen: It's still a cauldron of different genres, where I possibly experimented even more, often with genres I'm quite unfamiliar with... Hopefully the end result is pleasant anyway, and I'm definitely curious about what you think works, and what definitely doesn't: feedback on that would be great indeed!

That said, I think it's a more "direct" album than DM... first of all, it's a bit shorter, and the album "epic" (the title track) is way shorter than the epic from the previous album too (11 minutes vs 18), besides being a quite different song in the first place. It's also almost entirely sung, with just three songs being instrumentals (and that's including intro and outro). My vocal skills have not improved, though, so I'm not sure if this was a good or a bad change! :lol:

I won't bother you with a track-by-track description (you can find some info on Bandcamp itself for each), so I'll just leave you to it. If you listen to the album, please do let me know if you're curious about any song in particular: as I anticipated I tried to experiment quite a lot, and so I'd be happy to talk about how I approached this or that thing, or how a song came up in the first place.

I guess that's all, so I hope you'll enjoy this, and I'm looking forward to your thoughts on how it came out!
Last edited by Rainmak3r on Wed May 11, 2022 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Tenaba
Established Member
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:33 am
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by Tenaba »

I had only listened to Desert Rain prior to this, but that was a really enjoyable album. I like Colours the best out of all the tracks.

I think you made a lot of improvements, and really quickly too. The legato run at the end of the Desert Rain solo feels faster than your usual solos. There's a lot of variation between songs. Adding vocals to the songs is also a nice touch.

Also really like that riff at about 5:53 into the Rainmaker. I only wish it were longer.

Very impressive!

I make music as Tenaba! Bandcamp

User avatar
Rainmak3r
Established Member
Posts: 888
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:24 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 180 times
Contact:

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by Rainmak3r »

Tenaba wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:27 pm I had only listened to Desert Rain prior to this, but that was a really enjoyable album. I like Colours the best out of all the tracks.
Thanks a lot for listening to the whole album, it means a lot! I realise it means asking for a bigger committment of listeners, but I still believe in albums, so I guess I'll die on that hill :mrgreen:

I'm glad you liked Colours! It's one of the most "unusual" (for me) tracks in there, as it's very Blackfield in tone, and one could say almost pop, but I liked the ideas when they came to me and loved working on them.
Tenaba wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:27 pm I think you made a lot of improvements, and really quickly too. The legato run at the end of the Desert Rain solo feels faster than your usual solos. There's a lot of variation between songs. Adding vocals to the songs is also a nice touch.
Thanks, this is really appreciated! Not sure if that run is faster than usual, but I remember struggling quite a lot with most of the solos, including that one, so I'm not sure I'm really improving :lol: I'm glad you enjoyed the variation in tone between tracks: one things I feared was the lack of consistency, as with so many songs different from each other, it's easier for people to like some, but just as easy for many to really hate others. On vocals, this time around during the composition they all felt like they needed vocals, so I obliged: I'm not sure I'll do that again, though, as I really am not a singer, and I'm afraid it's quite obvious in some parts. That said, I'm happy I tried anyway!
Tenaba wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:27 pm Also really like that riff at about 5:53 into the Rainmaker. I only wish it were longer.

Very impressive!
If I got the right riff, it actually comes back at 6:19 in a longer form (rising in thirds), and then once more after the solos in 7:16. Or did you mean a different rff?

Thanks again for listening and for sharing your thoughts on it!
User avatar
Tenaba
Established Member
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:33 am
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by Tenaba »

Rainmak3r wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 6:55 am Thanks a lot for listening to the whole album, it means a lot! I realise it means asking for a bigger committment of listeners, but I still believe in albums, so I guess I'll die on that hill :mrgreen:

I'm glad you liked Colours! It's one of the most "unusual" (for me) tracks in there, as it's very Blackfield in tone, and one could say almost pop, but I liked the ideas when they came to me and loved working on them.

Thanks, this is really appreciated! Not sure if that run is faster than usual, but I remember struggling quite a lot with most of the solos, including that one, so I'm not sure I'm really improving :lol: I'm glad you enjoyed the variation in tone between tracks: one things I feared was the lack of consistency, as with so many songs different from each other, it's easier for people to like some, but just as easy for many to really hate others. On vocals, this time around during the composition they all felt like they needed vocals, so I obliged: I'm not sure I'll do that again, though, as I really am not a singer, and I'm afraid it's quite obvious in some parts. That said, I'm happy I tried anyway!


If I got the right riff, it actually comes back at 6:19 in a longer form (rising in thirds), and then once more after the solos in 7:16. Or did you mean a different rff?

Thanks again for listening and for sharing your thoughts on it!
Same, albums, or at least EPs are my preferred medium for music. However I think with the popularity of streaming, smaller releases may be getting more common.

And yes, that's the riff in the title track. I really liked it, Hardly even noticed that it came back right around a few minutes later, it almost feels like a different riff when it gets transposed.

I think it's best for an album to have some variation in it. Although I share your fear in a lack of consistency within the same album, I don't think I've ever heard a release where mixing genres, moods, etc had a negative effect.

I make music as Tenaba! Bandcamp

User avatar
GMaq
Established Member
Posts: 2774
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:42 pm
Has thanked: 520 times
Been thanked: 555 times

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by GMaq »

Hi Lorenzo!

Holy schnikies! This is an incredible piece of work! Everything you do is precise but with every album your production takes a huge leap, excellent work! The vocals are really good on this too!

Highlights (IMHO as a not-so-metal guy):

The explosion of layered guitars in Rainintro
the insistent hypnotic pulse of Heartbeat
the joyful shredding at the end of Chasing Clouds
Desert Rain gave me some flashes of Kings X and Ty Tabor which may surprise you I like a lot..lol
Neon's groove... killer! You must have grooved in your chair mixing that one down! Shredfest!
Locomotive motion of Thunder... wish the Kick was more Bonham than Ulrich tho..
Nice acoustic respite in A Reverie, great Vocal too and tasty lead guitar work, really soars!
Rainmaker is epic in all the good ways!

Must listen more, congrats and Kudos!
User avatar
andropogon
Established Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:45 pm
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by andropogon »

Liked the whole album. It sounds pretty various and that is definitely good! Nice beginning, 4 songs in one breath, so different but all in style. But what's going with Raintro and Heartbeat? Why do they break like that at the end?!
By the middle, it seemed to me, it sags a little, but it often happens on the first listening. However Riverie is still nice.
Everything is fine with your voice, so your worries about this are absolutely in vain. It is smooth and recognizable. It seemed to me that not everything was successful in the refrain of the Thunder only. Perhaps you wanted to do something more thunderous and multi-voice, more "rammsteinous". But maybe it just seemed.

Throughout the album I was lacking of bass (especially in Heartbeat solo) and these drums... Please, don't be offended, but it seems that only on the Heartbeat and Riverie they sounded right and didn't irritate. In such interesting and progressive music as yours, drums cannot play the role of just a metronome. It's not disco, it's not even rock'n'roll! You're using lots of pads and nice reverbed guitars so maybe it would not bad to add some reverb in Chasing Clouds drum part for example?

As for the title track, it's awesome in concept (just like the original, I was wondering how you will maintain the level). You have great guitar skills as well as melodism and arrangement, but after the third minute everything starts to crumble. Where did the voice go? Strings are suddenly came unnatural like polyester. Drums again...
But then the solo starts and everything goes back to life. And even the drums sound tolerable, but only until the end of this part (apparently thanks to the bass drum).

Otherwise, despite the fact that the album is not entirely conceptual, all the tracks are in their places. I thought about how I could rearrange them at own discretion (something like move the Rainmaker closer to the middle) and did not come up with anything better.
As for my personal preferences, the Heartbeat comes first. All instrumentals are great as well (I like instrumentals at all, but for some completely mysterious reason, most people prefer songs and used to say something like "great melody, buddy, if only some lyrics could be added here...") and Raintro and Forlom are perfect for beginning and ending. I liked Reverie for it's wonderful folk component and arrangement and Desert Rain as an appetizer.

Thanks for sharing! Hope the sales levels will pay off the effort spent on creation. :wink:
Sorry if I distracted you with such a nonsense.
User avatar
Rainmak3r
Established Member
Posts: 888
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:24 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 180 times
Contact:

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by Rainmak3r »

GMaq wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 6:18 pm Hi Lorenzo!

Holy schnikies! This is an incredible piece of work! Everything you do is precise but with every album your production takes a huge leap, excellent work! The vocals are really good on this too!
Thanks, this is really appreciated! I don't think vocals are that good (especially considering how much I like YOUR voice!) but I'm definitely grateful that you liked them instead :lol:
GMaq wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 6:18 pm Highlights (IMHO as a not-so-metal guy):

The explosion of layered guitars in Rainintro
the insistent hypnotic pulse of Heartbeat
the joyful shredding at the end of Chasing Clouds
Desert Rain gave me some flashes of Kings X and Ty Tabor which may surprise you I like a lot..lol
Neon's groove... killer! You must have grooved in your chair mixing that one down! Shredfest!
Locomotive motion of Thunder... wish the Kick was more Bonham than Ulrich tho..
Nice acoustic respite in A Reverie, great Vocal too and tasty lead guitar work, really soars!
Rainmaker is epic in all the good ways!

Must listen more, congrats and Kudos!
Wow I love how you managed to find something cool in each track, and how close that was to what I wanted to convey!

Tinkering with the theme in Raintro was a lot of fun, and one of the reasons why I kept the name :mrgreen:
Heartbeat being hypnotic was indeed my main aim: I wanted it to be repetitive, an "obsessive song on obsession" I liked to call it, so I'm glad that hit the mark!
The solo in Chasing Clouds is my favourite in the album, so I love that you called in "joyful" :mrgreen:
I'm not familiar with neither Kings X nor Ty Tabor, but now I think I should give them a listen...
and yes, Neon was really fun to work on! (despite it being a nichilistic pit of depression as a song itself :lol: )
I hear you on Thunder, but since it was meant to be an 80's metal song, Ulrich seems more at home there :mrgreen:
A lot of people told me they loved "In a Reverie", which makes me happy, since it was an experiment and I'm excited about how it came out!
I did indeed want Rainmaker to sound "epic", even though it's much shorter than "Delusion's Master" for instance, so at least that worked out anyway :mrgreen:

Thanks again for listening and for the kind words!
User avatar
Rainmak3r
Established Member
Posts: 888
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:24 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 180 times
Contact:

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by Rainmak3r »

andropogon wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:19 pm Liked the whole album. It sounds pretty various and that is definitely good! Nice beginning, 4 songs in one breath, so different but all in style. But what's going with Raintro and Heartbeat? Why do they break like that at the end?!
Thanks for listening! The abrupt end in the first two songs was done on purpose, exactly to make the first three songs feel like one breath where you can't catch a break: I had done the same on my first album between "Ascension" and "I'll be there". Of course that works better for music on a CD, where they jump into one another seamlessly: with streaming, the bit of buffering at each change kinda breaks the experience. It's the same between Neon and Thunder, where the last spoken sentence should jump you directly in the next song, and that doesn't really happen with streams unfortunately.
andropogon wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:19 pm By the middle, it seemed to me, it sags a little, but it often happens on the first listening. However Riverie is still nice.
Yes, I guess that it can happen since Neon is the first time the album really slows down (Heartbeat is slow too but much more nevrotic). I hope it will grow on you after some listens, as Neon is one of my favourite tracks on the album :mrgreen: I'm glad you appreciated Reverie!
andropogon wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:19 pm Everything is fine with your voice, so your worries about this are absolutely in vain. It is smooth and recognizable. It seemed to me that not everything was successful in the refrain of the Thunder only. Perhaps you wanted to do something more thunderous and multi-voice, more "rammsteinous". But maybe it just seemed.
Yes, that was exactly my aim initially, but it was much harder than I thought and results were definitely suboptimal, so you can call it a failed experiment. The idea was to have some sort of "stadium singing the refrain" kind of effect: I had a look at how other people did it, and nothing really seemed to work. Eventually I found a VST called Crowd Chamber, that apparently tries to do exactly that, so I played with the demo, and feeding 4 voices I recorded through three different profiles in the VST, that's what I ended up with. I kept the original voices in the background, a bit panned and a bit hidden, just to give more "definition" to the vocals, but that still didn't help much. Nevertheless, this was the effect I wanted to convey, and I didn't want to change how the refrain would be sung, so I kept it that way. Hopefully, next time I have to do the same I'll find a better approach.
andropogon wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:19 pm Throughout the album I was lacking of bass (especially in Heartbeat solo) and these drums... Please, don't be offended, but it seems that only on the Heartbeat and Riverie they sounded right and didn't irritate. In such interesting and progressive music as yours, drums cannot play the role of just a metronome. It's not disco, it's not even rock'n'roll! You're using lots of pads and nice reverbed guitars so maybe it would not bad to add some reverb in Chasing Clouds drum part for example?
Heartbeat doesn't have a bass :D The only bass in the track is made of three layered synths playing the repetitive pattern over and over, and that was on purpose, since it was more of an industrial track than a rock one. It's the same in Neon as well.

All drums have reverb in the album, maybe it's just not that noticeable in some tracks. But I feel what you're pointing out is something different, that is, not a problem in the sound of drums themselves, but in the writing. If so, I'm afraid there's nothing I can do: I'm not a drummer, and so while I try to introduce variations in the different patterns I write with Hydrogen, I'll never be able to introduce as many variations or subtleties that can make it sound like a real drummer, since I have no idea about how a real drummer can do fills for instance, or plays organically. That's simply never going to happen :mrgreen:
andropogon wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:19 pm As for the title track, it's awesome in concept (just like the original, I was wondering how you will maintain the level). You have great guitar skills as well as melodism and arrangement, but after the third minute everything starts to crumble. Where did the voice go? Strings are suddenly came unnatural like polyester. Drums again...
But then the solo starts and everything goes back to life. And even the drums sound tolerable, but only until the end of this part (apparently thanks to the bass drum).
I'm sorry you didn't like Rainmaker, as in my plan the 3rd minute is when it was supposed to grow, not crumble, since it's when we get the POV of the original "Rainmaker", and the orchestration adds more layers to the first verse. I guess my poor mixing skills failed me there, as they did a bit in "Delusion's Master" too when a lot of instruments were playing together. Not sure what you mean by polyester, though, since the strings are exactly the same in both verses, and so their sound too?
andropogon wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:19 pm Otherwise, despite the fact that the album is not entirely conceptual, all the tracks are in their places. I thought about how I could rearrange them at own discretion (something like move the Rainmaker closer to the middle) and did not come up with anything better.
As for my personal preferences, the Heartbeat comes first. All instrumentals are great as well (I like instrumentals at all, but for some completely mysterious reason, most people prefer songs and used to say something like "great melody, buddy, if only some lyrics could be added here...") and Raintro and Forlom are perfect for beginning and ending. I liked Reverie for it's wonderful folk component and arrangement and Desert Rain as an appetizer.

Thanks for sharing! Hope the sales levels will pay off the effort spent on creation. :wink:
Thanks again for listening and for the precious feedback! I do love instrumental music too, but this album just happened to call for more vocals while I was composing it, and so that happened. I still have the "Her" playlist on SoundCloud to complete with a longish track I'm working on, and that will be an almost entirely instrumental album indeed; another project I have will be completely instrumental; so you won't have to listen to my voice for quite some time :mrgreen:

On sales, I honestly don't care: I do this for fun, and losing a bit of money on a passion is something I'm definitely ok with.
User avatar
andropogon
Established Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:45 pm
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by andropogon »

Rainmak3r wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:44 am Of course that works better for music on a CD, where they jump into one another seamlessly: with streaming, the bit of buffering at each change kinda breaks the experience. It's the same between Neon and Thunder, where the last spoken sentence should jump you directly in the next song, and that doesn't really happen with streams unfortunately.
Actually i thought so cause love the effect and used it on my first and the only album which is totally instrumental by the way (https://soundcloud.com/andropogon1/sets/world-21). But it works on Soundcloud and it works on Neon and Thunder so I was confused.
Rainmak3r wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:44 am Yes, that was exactly my aim initially, but it was much harder than I thought and results were definitely suboptimal, so you can call it a failed experiment. The idea was to have some sort of "stadium singing the refrain" kind of effect: I had a look at how other people did it, and nothing really seemed to work.
Oh I know how it's hard trust me. I've come across this. I played with different distorts and choruses and tried even to record 4 different parts with my own voice and to mix them and it didn't work. In another case, I did manage to achieve the effect of "stadium singing", but for this I had to sample real stadium singing :D And in the end, I was unable to build my vocals into it correctly (https://soundcloud.com/andropogon1/ukraina).
Rainmak3r wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:44 am Heartbeat doesn't have a bass :D The only bass in the track is made of three layered synths playing the repetitive pattern over and over, and that was on purpose, since it was more of an industrial track than a rock one. It's the same in Neon as well.
I got it and I thought that on Neon it seemed to me. :) Well you could add one more bass line but you're the boss!
Rainmak3r wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:44 am All drums have reverb in the album, maybe it's just not that noticeable in some tracks. But I feel what you're pointing out is something different, that is, not a problem in the sound of drums themselves, but in the writing. If so, I'm afraid there's nothing I can do: I'm not a drummer, and so while I try to introduce variations in the different patterns I write with Hydrogen, I'll never be able to introduce as many variations or subtleties that can make it sound like a real drummer, since I have no idea about how a real drummer can do fills for instance, or plays organically. That's simply never going to happen :mrgreen:
In such cases, I use ready-made parts and loops written in midi. The thing is, they already come with the right velocities, which is important in a drum part. You still need to tweak them to fit your song, but it's easier than writing everything from scratch with no idea of the experience of the drummer.
Rainmak3r wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:44 am I'm sorry you didn't like Rainmaker, as in my plan the 3rd minute is when it was supposed to grow, not crumble, since it's when we get the POV of the original "Rainmaker", and the orchestration adds more layers to the first verse. I guess my poor mixing skills failed me there, as they did a bit in "Delusion's Master" too when a lot of instruments were playing together. Not sure what you mean by polyester, though, since the strings are exactly the same in both verses, and so their sound too?
I didn't say I don't like it! As I said I was wondering how you will maintain the level of the original and I think you succeeded. It's worthy! Your solo is great! I wish I could do the same. 8) And maybe I didn't fully get your idea on 3rd minute, but these are my problems.
By polyester I meant very synthetic strings' sounding. I'd like them to be more natural in this part.
Rainmak3r wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:44 am On sales, I honestly don't care: I do this for fun, and losing a bit of money on a passion is something I'm definitely ok with.
I understand what you are talking about, I just intend to go to the Bandcamp myself and wonder if it works. We are kind of amateurs, but it's always nice when your hobby can bring in a little bit of income. :wink: A small compensation for the effort, time and energy spent.
However, I believe that your music deserves to be framed in a more pro-way. It would be interesting to hear it live, with a live band and live drummer. 8) I think it could be great show!
Sorry if I distracted you with such a nonsense.
User avatar
Michael Willis
Established Member
Posts: 1451
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:27 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains, North America
Has thanked: 69 times
Been thanked: 164 times
Contact:

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by Michael Willis »

I'm late to this party, I had to listen more than once to collect my thoughts. I actually like the vocals, and think that you could mix them a little bit more forward. My favorite piece in the album is In a Reverie, with Colours coming in close as the runner up. I also liked the part in Chasing Clouds at 2:12 when everything dropped out for a simple solo instrument to play. Is that part played by a celesta? Also, what piano and what reverb settings did you use for the solos in Colours and In a Reverie? I'm guessing some sampled concert grand with Dragonfly Hall set to a pretty big room size and decay time. Those piano parts sound really great.
jeanette_c
Established Member
Posts: 728
Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 5:53 pm
Has thanked: 347 times
Been thanked: 268 times

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by jeanette_c »

Hi @Rainmak3r , first of all I want to congratulate you on this album! I find it very well composed, arranged and played. I listened to the tracks in alphabetical order, so I can't fully appreciate the structure of the album as a whole, but I think the songs fit together very well. The change of genres is pronounced, but always plausible through similar harmonic context and a consistent return of sounds.
It's a pity that the orchestra does not always do your other sound design justice, a feat we live with and try to improve upon. There are some beautiful - and beautiful sounding - string arrangements, in particular in Rainmaker beginning around 2:47.
And whilst I am talking about nice sounding elements, besides the obvious quality of your guiar sound, I would like to include your voice here. I find it very fitting for the music you write and you obviously write good vocal parts to get the best out of your range.
In Neon the strong reverb on the kickdrum muddies the low frequencies. I listened back to Heartbeat where you used a similar electronic kit, but didn't notice that issue there. Did you process the drums as one stereo track or send all drums to the same bus?
Sometimes your vocals are very far back in the mix. Mainly, I think this is a matter of volume. I've heard that in bigger mixes you can also work with inaudible delays to help put elements at a certain depth. In particular Heartbeat and Rainmaker had very quiet vocals.
Your drum playing and/or programming is top notch! Really good, diverse and sophisticated grooves with a natural feel. And yes, I will say it again: the drum production sounds rather weak and thin, compared to the arrangements. It's a pity, because they are so vital to the song and received all the attention they deserve in the writing. I also know that drumgizmo kits, in particular, are very realistic, but demand much more work than a sampled kit without bleed. Drumgizmo really is a good tool for teaching and realistic experiences. Even with my love for drums, I haven't yet got the sound from it that I desire. :)
When it comes to compositions I could mention so many things that I really enjoyed. Rainmaker alone is a treasure trove. The structure, changing of sections, the instrumentation, guitar recording and playing. Perhaps the continuing drum groove under the orchestral part around four minutes is a little unexpected. But more nonconformant with a trope than a mishab. :)
The sound choices/design for Neon and Heartbeat were a pleasant surprise. The changing bass sound in Neon is a nice touch and the bell-like sound is really good. Down to earth, but not too mainstream or interchangeable with every second patch from that category. The bass in Heartbeat is simply ace! And then when you introduce the guitars in unison with that bass... Wow! good one!
I'd like to know the synthesizers you used. How much guitar processing did you do in the box?
Thanks for sharing this album! All experiments included, it stands as one unit in my mind. The music holds to a very high standard with lots of detail to discover.
Best wishes, Jeanette
--
distro: ArchLinux, DAW: Nama, MIDI sequencer: Midish
All my latest music on https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rf ... 7jhC1Jnv7g
Albums, patches and Csound on http://juliencoder.de
User avatar
Rainmak3r
Established Member
Posts: 888
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:24 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 180 times
Contact:

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by Rainmak3r »

Michael Willis wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 7:02 pm I'm late to this party, I had to listen more than once to collect my thoughts. I actually like the vocals, and think that you could mix them a little bit more forward. My favorite piece in the album is In a Reverie, with Colours coming in close as the runner up. I also liked the part in Chasing Clouds at 2:12 when everything dropped out for a simple solo instrument to play. Is that part played by a celesta? Also, what piano and what reverb settings did you use for the solos in Colours and In a Reverie? I'm guessing some sampled concert grand with Dragonfly Hall set to a pretty big room size and decay time. Those piano parts sound really great.
Thanks for listening, I'm glad you liked the album, and "In a Reverie" and "Colours" in particular! It looks like from the feedback I've gathered so far, those two seem to be a favourite of many :D

Yes, the break in Chasing Clouds is played by a Celesta, an instrument I've grown to appreciate more and more recently. This particular break was inspired by a couple of different songs I liked, including Line of Fire by Antimatter (which has a similar break at ~3:30). More in general, I love how "celestial" and atmospheric the Celesta can sound.

On the piano parts in the song you mentioned, the piano itself is a Salamander SFZ, while the reverb is actually something you're very familiar with, since it's the Middle Reverb in your own Ardour orchestra template :mrgreen: I now use that any time there are orchestral parts in a song (many of the songs in the album use it, Rainmaker too), and I found that the Middle Reverb sounded nicely for piano too. I use a couple of MIDI tweaks for the piano as well: in Colours, for instance, when the song changes the piano has both Sustain (CC64) and Una Corda (CC67) enabled. I found that Una Corda in particular helps make the piano sound softer in some cases.
User avatar
Rainmak3r
Established Member
Posts: 888
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:24 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 180 times
Contact:

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by Rainmak3r »

jeanette_c wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:51 pm Hi @Rainmak3r , first of all I want to congratulate you on this album! I find it very well composed, arranged and played. I listened to the tracks in alphabetical order, so I can't fully appreciate the structure of the album as a whole, but I think the songs fit together very well. The change of genres is pronounced, but always plausible through similar harmonic context and a consistent return of sounds.
Thanks for listening, Jeanette, and for the very kind words! Not sure why you listened to them in alphabetical order, but I'm glad that didn't detract from you enhoying the album :D
jeanette_c wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:51 pm It's a pity that the orchestra does not always do your other sound design justice, a feat we live with and try to improve upon. There are some beautiful - and beautiful sounding - string arrangements, in particular in Rainmaker beginning around 2:47.
Yes, string sections in particular are always very hard to make "realistic". I'll have to start tinkering more with the free "BBC Orchestra" VST by Spitfire, but it being a Windows VST makes it much more problematic to use effectively, and efficiently, within the context of a Linux project: the occasional Windows VST is fine, but at least 5 instances for a full strings section is goint to take a toll. Sooner or later I'd like to give SCC Expressive Strings a try too, since the preview video looks really intriguing. In the meanwhile I'm trying to improve my arrangement skills first, to see if they help resulting in better sounding parts in the first place, so I'm glad you liked that interlude in Rainmaker!
jeanette_c wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:51 pm And whilst I am talking about nice sounding elements, besides the obvious quality of your guiar sound, I would like to include your voice here. I find it very fitting for the music you write and you obviously write good vocal parts to get the best out of your range.
I'm helped by the fact my range is not that large in the first place! :mrgreen: But thanks for your nice words, they're really appreciated!
jeanette_c wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:51 pm In Neon the strong reverb on the kickdrum muddies the low frequencies. I listened back to Heartbeat where you used a similar electronic kit, but didn't notice that issue there. Did you process the drums as one stereo track or send all drums to the same bus?
I checked and I used a Hydrogen kit called TR808909 (that's supposed to emulate both the Roland TR-808 and TR-909 I guess) for both of them: in Heartbeat, though, I alternated the 909 and 808 kicks, while in Neon it was mostly (only?) 909 kicks, which do sound a bit different. I think reverbs were similar in both songs (cranked way too high!) so my guess is the different kick sound is indeed the main cause. I didn't notice the problem, to be honest, so I didn't work on any equalization to mitigate it. On mixing, it was actually quite basic, since unlike Hydrogen+DrumGizmo, with this drumkit it was Hydrogen itself that was generating the audio, and I recorded its stereo stream from there and then applied filters and plugins in Ardour.
jeanette_c wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:51 pm Sometimes your vocals are very far back in the mix. Mainly, I think this is a matter of volume. I've heard that in bigger mixes you can also work with inaudible delays to help put elements at a certain depth. In particular Heartbeat and Rainmaker had very quiet vocals.
Yes, mixing vocals is definitely my weakest part at the moment (even worse than drums mixing :lol: ). Sometimes I even lowered vocals because I thought they were too loud: I think I'm just clueless as to what sounds "good" here, and the fact I didn't like my voice didn't help reach an objective mixing decision. My next efforts will likely be much more instrumental, so I can worry about this later, much later :mrgreen:
jeanette_c wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:51 pm Your drum playing and/or programming is top notch! Really good, diverse and sophisticated grooves with a natural feel. And yes, I will say it again: the drum production sounds rather weak and thin, compared to the arrangements. It's a pity, because they are so vital to the song and received all the attention they deserve in the writing. I also know that drumgizmo kits, in particular, are very realistic, but demand much more work than a sampled kit without bleed. Drumgizmo really is a good tool for teaching and realistic experiences. Even with my love for drums, I haven't yet got the sound from it that I desire. :)
Yep, we've talked about how tough DrumGizmo is, and yet I do love how that drumkit sounds compared to others, which is why I keep on punishing myself :lol: Should you experiment more with DrumGizmo in the future and figure out more, I'd love to learn!
jeanette_c wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:51 pm When it comes to compositions I could mention so many things that I really enjoyed. Rainmaker alone is a treasure trove. The structure, changing of sections, the instrumentation, guitar recording and playing. Perhaps the continuing drum groove under the orchestral part around four minutes is a little unexpected. But more nonconformant with a trope than a mishab. :)
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! It's definitely no "Delusion's Master" in terms of complexity or texture richness, but I loved working on it, and approaching a longish song in a different way. It also sounds much more "Dream Theather"-ish than other things I've written, especially in the middle heavier part, so I guessed you might have liked that song in particular because of that too.
jeanette_c wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:51 pm The sound choices/design for Neon and Heartbeat were a pleasant surprise. The changing bass sound in Neon is a nice touch and the bell-like sound is really good. Down to earth, but not too mainstream or interchangeable with every second patch from that category. The bass in Heartbeat is simply ace! And then when you introduce the guitars in unison with that bass... Wow! good one!
I'd like to know the synthesizers you used. How much guitar processing did you do in the box?
I loved figuring out how to make the bass in Heartbeat that way! It sounded "huge" in my mind, and I wanted something that felt the same. I basically ended up applying one of the most important lessons I learned in the past few years, that is the importance of layering: in general, this is part of what I took from classical music, where you learn how important doubling is, at the same octave or different ones, and with the same or different textures. This kind of layering, especially in terms of different textures, is something I've started doing more and more, to try and getting a richer and more fulfilling sound than what a single instrument, no matter how good, can provide.

That bass in particular is the result of three different synths playing at the same time, all played by Surge: I remember one was called "evilous" and another "fm2", while the third one was closer to a monster bass. Each of them provided a different flavour to the bass, since fm2 would give a more traditional bass, evilous a more distorted one, and the monster bass the wider and "scarier" bass aftertaste. All together they do sound quite huge and impactful, so I really like how they came out.

In Neon the bass was different, since as you noticed the bass sound changes depending on where the song is: layering is used there too, since there's one effect that's always there, and others that only pile up at specific times, thus contributing to the change in the overall tone. In Neon all basses were played by Yoshimi and not Surge.
jeanette_c wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:51 pm Thanks for sharing this album! All experiments included, it stands as one unit in my mind. The music holds to a very high standard with lots of detail to discover.
Best wishes, Jeanette
Thanks again for listening and for the precious feedback you shared as usual!
folderol
Established Member
Posts: 2072
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Here, of course!
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 400 times
Contact:

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by folderol »

Listening through on bandcamp now...
Very much like what I've heard so far. Lots of sort-of restrained aggression in this - especially 'Desert Rain'.

Just got to 'Neon'. very interesting sounds in the intro :)
The Yoshimi guy {apparently now an 'elderly'}
User avatar
Rainmak3r
Established Member
Posts: 888
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:24 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 180 times
Contact:

Re: Rainmaker (album)

Post by Rainmak3r »

folderol wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 10:03 am Listening through on bandcamp now...
Very much like what I've heard so far. Lots of sort-of restrained aggression in this - especially 'Desert Rain'.

Just got to 'Neon'. very interesting sounds in the intro :)
Thanks for listening! Looking forward to your thoughts on the second part :D
Post Reply